The Lt. Columbo Forum

An area where fans from all over can ask each other questions and voice their own ideas and opinions on anything Columbo.

This Forum is fondly dedicated in memory of  "cassavetes45"  (Carleen Zink),
Columbo's greatest fan and a great friend to us all.
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The Lt. Columbo Forum
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Re: Old Fashioned Murder

I agree, vastly underrated episode. One of my favourite but simple Columbo scenes is where's he's waiting for Mrs Lytton to come down stairs. Superbly psychological cat and mouse.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

Great episode, this one felt like a performance. Each scene was well crafted, it somehow felt like a work of art.

But one thing I don't understand is why Ruth cared if Janie knew she killed her father. Ruth was in the process of framing her for murder. She didn't mind sending her to prison why would she worry about Janie finding out about her father?

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

Enormous plot holes and uniformly below-par acting performances make this one of the most over-rated episodes of the series.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

'Old Fashioned Murder' has never been rated highly. I actually find it better than many of the more highly regarded episodes. The 'Columbo File' ranks 'Fade Into Murder' higher than both 'Old Fashioned Murder' and 'The Bye Bye Sky High IQ Murder Case', but i have always found 'Fade Into Murder' very reflective of what has gone before, and 'Old Fashioned Murder' and 'The Bye Bye.....' both very different. 'Old Fashioned Murder' especially, is a very subtle episode in terms of the way the relationships between the family members are explored, and i think that is part of its strength. It is a very well conceived show, and well acted too.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

I would also rate 'Old Fashioned Murder' above 'Fade into Murder', but we're talking about some of the weakest of the 1970s episodes here. There are just too many things about 'Old Fashioned Murder' that irritate me - the Jeannie character, Sergeant Miller, not a particularly engaging villain, an almost non-existent soundtrack, and a couple of unforgivably sloppy bits of the plot. Yes, the relationship between the family members are explored to a certain extent, but not in a way that makes any sense. It's all a bit unfortunate as the episode starts off quite well.

'IQ' I'd put a little higher than both of them.

Thanks for raising some interesting points though.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

Yes, i agree, the actor Peter Freibleman, who played the murder victim seems very stilted in his performance, and especially during his conversation with Joyce Van Patten with regard to setting up the robbery. I believe he also wrote the teleplay for this show. Falk is good, but i sense a little that he isn't so finely tuned as he was in earlier seasons. However, the story is a very good one, and much of the lack of success Ruth feels with regards to her sense of purpose/achievements outside business, she blames on her sister. There is a very deep rooted sense here that she feels a sense of injustice stretching right back to her youth. Her brother, Edward's plans to close the museum makes the last thing she has to cling onto is in jeapady of disappearing. I believe this creates a show with a deeply psychological scenario.

'The Bye Bye Sky High..' is another undervalued story, too, but i find the elaborate way Oliver tries to cover his tracks to provide the alibi, with regards to using a record player, a dictionary, etc. rather too far fetched to ever contemplate. That still doesn't diminish the enjoyment of the story, though.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

One of my few complaints is still with some of the lines Joyce Van Patten is given (a lot more than her actual acting in those scenes), like "You and I must never underestimate one another." I still say that's the kind of line for Moriarty to say to Holmes, or Blofeld to say to Bond, or similar pairs of characters, but it's just not the kind of line for the killer to say to COLUMBO. In a COLUMBO episode, the killer is supposed to at least TRY to sound innocent to him up to the final scene, even if it's sometimes in a "token" sort of way, and lines like that one get in the way of that idea.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

I have a similar feeling toward "Bye Bye etc", Edward; out of all the episodes, that is one of the hardest to swallow. Of course, Theodore Bikel is a wonderful actor, but I felt much of the cast in that episode was a little over-the-top. One could say the same is true for "Old Fashioned Murder", with both Phyllis Brandt and Darryl, and I'd agree in regards to Phyllis. She's the one element that I feel is a weak spot in the episode. Also, the editing seems to be especially sloppy for the series, with for instance Ruth putting on her reading glasses twice in a row, in a span of only a few seconds, as she talks with Edward. Other than that, I feel, as I commented before, that it's a fantastic episode. To me, the soundtrack is one of the best in the series, and though I can understand the feeling about Jeanie Berlin being miscast, there's always the possibility her character inherited more features from her unseen father, rather than her mother and the other Lyttons.
Also, it's interesting what "The Columbo Phile" reveals about the origins of this episode coming from a story devised by Peter Fischer. He is hands-down my favorite writer for the series, yet his original vision, to me, seemed inferior to what ultimately became this episode. As you've alluded to, Edward, the tragic, almost desperate nature of the Ruth Lytton character really gives the story impact.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

Yes Bryce. I think also there's possibly less of a cat-and-mouse battle between Columbo and Ruth. Many of his adversaries seem pretty obnoxious, and rather willing to play along with him, as a way of detracting attention away from themselves. They can be rather smug and a little vain, and all to eager to portray a rather false facade. However, one gets the feeling with Ruth that she, more than anything, sees the murders as a kind a statement. I'm not implying, for example, that she wanted to get caught, necessarily, but there appears, perhaps, to be longing of recognition on her part, that she's entitled to a life as well, and just as her sister has managed to cause her a great deal of hurt, she's not incapable of administering the same.
I believe the portrayal of Phyllis being almost cartoon-like in her eccentricity, was simply a way of showing the utter contrast between the sisters, within the time available. Celeste Holm's character may have seemed unbelieveably extreme in her fainting etc. but there's also a sense for me, that the comedy elements within her performance (and that of Daryl too) marks a nice contrast to the overwhelmingly deep psychological overtones of the rest of the story.
I never really saw an issue with the casting of Jeanie Berlin, either. She could just have resembled her father's side of the family more. I know plenty of 'real' families where resemblances between certain members of the family, are not always strong.

Re: Old Fashioned Murder

I had never thought about the Phyllis character that way before, but now that you mention it, Edward, it is a nice contrast from Ruth, and sort of shows that while Phyllis over-reacts to the slightest things, Ruth is very reserved, even though she has deep-seated anguish far more oppressive than anything Phyllis has had to endure. So in a sense, one sister has petty pain, yet responds to it mellow-dramatically, while the other has torturous pain, yet expresses it meekly. Well, until she reaches a breaking point and commits murder.
One thing I wanted to mention again is the music in the episode. It is very distinct, much like the themes to "Murder By the Book", "Ransom for a Dead Man", and "Any Old Port in a Storm"; these all have themes that are only heard in a single episode (although I believe "Ransom's" theme can be heard quietly as background music in a few other episodes). Also, much like the Patrick Williams scores for later shows, I feel "Old Fashioned Murder's" music really helps set the mood.