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Away From The Numbers

All good things come to an end. Or so they say. AFTN has been around since 1989, first as a fanzine and then making the jump to a website and forum in 2003. We've been through the many ups and down at East Fife in those 12 years but policing the forum has become a giant pain in the ass in recent years. As such, we made the decision not to renew it when it expired.

The forum is no more and will remain as a locked archive until it is eventually deleted by the host. We're looking in to try to save some of the content as an archive.

This is not the end of AFTN though. The site will continue and will be revamped and return in its full glory for the start of the 2016/17 season. Maybe even sooner. There will be a comment sections and possibly even a new, registered forum. Check our Twitter (@aftnwebsite) for all the latest info and we'll also post in on the EFFC memories Facebook page.

Until then, have a last browse here, thanks for all your support over the years, and 'Mon the Fife.

GoF

 

East Fife
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Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

i.e. me.

That would be great!

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Neil Rankine owns East Fife. But his majority shares are in the name of Samantha Twigg. She is his young niece or something. Sid is his pal. Rankine is a property man. It is illegal to have shares in more than one club. He owns Livingston who are looking at selling their ground and tried to bury Dumbarton for profit before that.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Samantha Twigg is the majority shareholder. She is the daughter of Loraine Twigg. Loraine is the partner of Neil Rankine. This is an absolute coincedence and does not in any way mean that Neil Rankine is actually controlling the shares. This is so because it is not allowed to have an interest in 2 clubs.

There is no paper-trail whatsoever that would lead anyone to Neil Rankine from the Samantha Twigg shares. Therefor, the powers that be say it must be the wee girl that has the shares.

Got to love the SFA, they see what they want!

Neil Rankine used to own Dumbarton but has sold up and is now at Livi. Sid is friends with Neil but that does not mean in anyway whatsoever that he is acting for Neil.

(hope you're all liking the over-use of the word whatsoever, it's to make sure you all understand that this post is not in anyway pointing out that Rankine is in charge of East Fife)

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Twiggy
Neil Rankine owns East Fife. But his majority shares are in the name of Samantha Twigg. She is his young niece or something. Sid is his pal. Rankine is a property man. It is illegal to have shares in more than one club. He owns Livingston who are looking at selling their ground and tried to bury Dumbarton for profit before that.


I am sure I read in the Sunday Mail that Rankine was a bookmaker, and he brought down SFL President Browm Macmaster, on alleged betting irregularities as a revenge action further to Livingston's imposed relegation to the third division.

A bookmaker with controlling interests in more than one football club??

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

In the late 90, early 00s lots of clubs were "gifted land" or got it at a very cheap price.........(sometimes because debts were not transfered during a company takeover then after a court case said debt had to be written off).

Speculators may choose to make an investment in that club in the hope that one day, the "gifted land" may be sold for development, and return a tidy profit. Now, if you wanted to make investments like this in more than one SFL club, then you'd have to do so via someone else - wife, partner, partner's daughter sort of thing.

I suspect this is the motivation of East Fife's biggest shareholder and not to control multiple clubs as part of some match fixing scheme. That ould be very very difficult - how many people would have to be in on it? Too many to avoid detection IMO.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

I don't actually think the motive is "match fixing" or necessarily land values.
Danskin was desperate to get rid of his shares and, as I understand, accepted a knock down price.

Rankine sees the investment opportunity to buy the cut price shares, with the potential to cash in when football club share values pick up.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Forget ticking over. For East Fife to go out out football business would suit Rankine. Braw bit land soon. Good profit. Whats our next move as fans???

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Ask for a meeting with the Directors. Get the Trust and Supporters Club members to attend.
Encourage as much people to attend as possible. My God, the club could even open the bar and make a wee profit.
If the club have nothing to hide, then they surely can`t turn down a meeting with the fans....or can they??

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Local Businessman
Ask for a meeting with the Directors. Get the Trust and Supporters Club members to attend.
Encourage as much people to attend as possible. My God, the club could even open the bar and make a wee profit.
If the club have nothing to hide, then they surely can`t turn down a meeting with the fans....or can they??


East Fife directors have always refused to talk about this matter in public. Rankine doesn't want his name to be mentioned, and those on the board who know the full truth of his involvement all owe their positions to Rankine's investment. Try this from The Scotsman newspaper in August last year -


The reason for months of secrecy surrounding the ground switch project is unclear, if in-keeping with other off-field matters at Bayview Stadium. Director Jim Stevenson claims the names and shareholdings of those controlling the club "can be looked up on the internet" but is unwilling to provide that information himself. "We have lots of shareholders, they are not anonymous," he added. In 2005, The Scotsman revealed that an eight-year-old girl was the major shareholder of East Fife FC. According to recent documents filed at Companies House, the girl, her mother and club chairman Sid Collumbine control over half of the club's issued shares.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

How about a protest march down Leven High Street?

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Local Businessman
How about a protest march down Leven High Street?


Protest over what exactly?

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Protest for a tell all meeting. The fans are in the dark and it could end in the demise of the club we love very soon. Slogan?

Rankine out!

It would highlight the clubs situation if anything.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

This Rankine/Twigg thing has been going on for years now. It's been in the press. Has the Club been approached about a meeting in the last few years ? I'm thinking this is the Trust's ball park in particular (not that the SC and others should be persuing it too).

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

What's the catalyst for all this re-igniting? The bobby linn speculation or has someone just awoken from a 5 year coma?? Confused.com

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

MaRY_BaLE
What's the catalyst for all this re-igniting? The bobby linn speculation or has someone just awoken from a 5 year coma?? Confused.com


I think it's because Lloyd Young is not getting a game

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

'I think it's because Lloyd Young is not getting a game.'





That's the single funniest line on this forum in years.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

That, and we're in serious, serious financial trouble.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

MaRY_BaLe
In the late 90, early 00s lots of clubs were "gifted land" or got it at a very cheap price.........(sometimes because debts were not transfered during a company takeover then after a court case said debt had to be written off).

Speculators may choose to make an investment in that club in the hope that one day, the "gifted land" may be sold for development, and return a tidy profit. Now, if you wanted to make investments like this in more than one SFL club, then you'd have to do so via someone else - wife, partner, partner's daughter sort of thing.

I suspect this is the motivation of East Fife's biggest shareholder and not to control multiple clubs as part of some match fixing scheme. That ould be very very difficult - how many people would have to be in on it? Too many to avoid detection IMO.


Mary I think you are right, this all to do with the price of land; East Fife as a going concern provides little or no return but even if the owners DO decide to run the club into the ground, Fife Council will only allow the land to be used as a football stadium. A new football club would then play there whether as a junior side or whatever. Hence the reason for the new ground proposals.

As for serious financial trouble, presumably we are now paying for the Willie Gray 'revenge on Raith' era.

If clubs are interested in Bobby Linn then sell him for a profit - just like nearly every other lower league club has to do.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

I think it would be wrong to assume that the land could only be used as a football ground.

It may be designated for that kind of use at the moment- I don't actually know - but with the development of the energy park close by the planning designation may change. After all the council recently did just that when they allowed the new medical centre the go-ahead on land that was initially meant to be restricted use.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

I don't think the land was designated only for a football. If I remember correctly there was allowance for other development which included housing. Not sure but anyway this could be changed.

As to who owns East Fife. It goes back to the Danskin debacle. An urgent need to distance from this man meant that his shares were sold at a discount to S Twigg. At this time It constituted over 30% of the shares. Since that time with the issue of more shares an uptake of over 50% was acquired by Twigg, L Johnstone and Collumbine (as nominee for Twigg and Johnston).

Now the SFA rules are quite specific re holding shares/involvement in more than one club. This extends to various close relations. Now if "rumours" are correct and Rankine is involved with Johnstone and Twigg It may be that he is able to overcome the SFA restrictions because of lack of marriage?

It raises the question why would someone invest a considerable sum in a club with no affiliation. If indeed that is the case. Is it altruistic to keep a club afloat? Or like me you think it is for profit. It was always the fact that the ground would be worth a fair bit after the power station was gone. Now that is happening and it will be interesting to see what develops.

As of this morning latest shareholding not published but should be available in the next week. But at last count I think the Rodgers family were the next biggest and Brown family still holding a considerable amount

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

The Council will not allow East Fife to die and will probably grant planning s/t the club having a new home to move to.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

St Pauli Fifer
That, and we're in serious, serious financial trouble.



Again i`ll ask the question.How do you know we`re in serious financial bother?
Sid come out in the press and said we`re suffering due to the lack of home games due to the winter freeze.What clubs not tho?I believe we have received a winter financial boost from the Sfl along with every other member club.We would also have earned at least 25k from the cup match vs Aberdeen so why all of a sudden are we in serious serious financial difficulty?Sid also came out and said when Gray left that we were in good financial condition and wouldn`t spend outwith our means so the exsisting player contracts can`t be the problem.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

East Fife till a die
St Pauli Fifer
That, and we're in serious, serious financial trouble.



Again i`ll ask the question.How do you know we`re in serious financial bother?
Sid come out in the press and said we`re suffering due to the lack of home games due to the winter freeze.What clubs not tho?I believe we have received a winter financial boost from the Sfl along with every other member club.We would also have earned at least 25k from the cup match vs Aberdeen so why all of a sudden are we in serious serious financial difficulty?Sid also came out and said when Gray left that we were in good financial condition and wouldn`t spend outwith our means so the exsisting player contracts can`t be the problem.


I will try to keep this simple. In fact it is very simple. Player contracts were offered this season on a projected level of revenue coming in. That projection was too optimistic. Crowds are down, hospitality is down and we failed again to get a shirt sponsorship deal. Every week we are spending more than we are bringing in, because contracts have to be honoured. This will continue for the next four months and there is nothing the club can do about it until the contracts expire. The loss will get bigger and bigger, offset only by the Aberdeen money. That is why we are in financial trouble.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Follower,apart from maybe 1 or 2 clubs you tell me what scottish football team isn't in financial bother this year?Motherwell lost out on a player to a non-league english team for fuck sake,Rangers are having to sell their top scorer due to financial pressures,so our situation although worrying is not unique.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

fletch20
Follower,apart from maybe 1 or 2 clubs you tell me what scottish football team isn't in financial bother this year?Motherwell lost out on a player to a non-league english team for fuck sake,Rangers are having to sell their top scorer due to financial pressures,so our situation although worrying is not unique.


Jesus wept. Someone asked why we were in financial trouble and I explained why. No more, no less. I did not say we are in a unique situation. But for what it is worth, it doesn't make me feel any better to know that other clubs have problems too. That doesn't make our situation any better.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

East Fife till a die
St Pauli Fifer
That, and we're in serious, serious financial trouble.



Again i`ll ask the question.How do you know we`re in serious financial bother?
Sid come out in the press and said we`re suffering due to the lack of home games due to the winter freeze.What clubs not tho?I believe we have received a winter financial boost from the Sfl along with every other member club.We would also have earned at least 25k from the cup match vs Aberdeen so why all of a sudden are we in serious serious financial difficulty?Sid also came out and said when Gray left that we were in good financial condition and wouldn`t spend outwith our means so the exsisting player contracts can`t be the problem.


Regardless of how I know we're in bother, just look at Brechin's loss (40k) at their AGM compared to ours (with smaller crowds and attendances than us) - to take a peer, smaller, more successful Club.

'Sid come out in the press...' in the Courier and in other media saying we're at "desperation stage" after, at that time, missing ONE solitary home game (which you'd expect around this time of year). You're answering the questions yourself about other Clubs also suffering (but not quite as badly - and how come ?) and the fact a big cup tie and a winter payment is only making a dent in our financial woes. We are being ridiculously badly run.
"Sid also came out and said when Gray left that we were in good financial condition"

He would.

Follower has summed it up in a nutshell.

Rankine's been effectively in control of the Club for years and we still don't know his ambitions for the Club, on or off the park. He's replaced Brown with Collumbine - what's the difference if you take away the Gray glory season (which we're now reaping) ? We're back in the same shit, a league higher.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Jocky
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


hooray! jocky has entered the later stages of his persistent vegetative state.

sweet dreams x

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

From Scottish Football League Rules,

21. DUAL INTERESTS IN CLUBS


21.3 For the purposes of this Rule 21 (Dual Interests in Clubs):-

“person” includes, without limitation, an individual, partnership, consortium,
unincorporated body or association, and any other organisation having legal
capacity.

“club” means a football club in membership or associate membership of
the League and any football club in membership of the F.A. Premier League,
The Football League, The Scottish Premier League or the Irish Premier
League. “associate” means:

21.3.1 if the person is an individual:-

21.3.1.1 a close relative of that individual, including his spouse, civil partner, parents,
step or adoptive parents, child, step or adopted children, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece, or a child, step or adopted child of such parent, spouse or civil partner or anyone else of close relationship to the individual who, in the opinion of the Board, is or is likely to be acting in conjunction with the individual or influenced by him;

If the rumours in this thread are true, then Rule 21 is surely on the balance of probabilities being breached in the eyes of any reasonable thinking person.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

"in the eyes of any reasonable thinking person."

Careful! This is Scottish football you're talking about.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Spartacus
If the rumours in this thread are true, then Rule 21 is surely on the balance of probabilities being breached in the eyes of any reasonable thinking person.


Careful.....SFA may chose to deduct us 25 points!

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Spartacus
From Scottish Football League Rules,

21. DUAL INTERESTS IN CLUBS


21.3 For the purposes of this Rule 21 (Dual Interests in Clubs):-

“person” includes, without limitation, an individual, partnership, consortium,
unincorporated body or association, and any other organisation having legal
capacity.

“club” means a football club in membership or associate membership of
the League and any football club in membership of the F.A. Premier League,
The Football League, The Scottish Premier League or the Irish Premier
League. “associate” means:

21.3.1 if the person is an individual:-

21.3.1.1 a close relative of that individual, including his spouse, civil partner, parents,
step or adoptive parents, child, step or adopted children, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece, or a child, step or adopted child of such parent, spouse or civil partner or anyone else of close relationship to the individual who, in the opinion of the Board, is or is likely to be acting in conjunction with the individual or influenced by him;

If the rumours in this thread are true, then Rule 21 is surely on the balance of probabilities being breached in the eyes of any reasonable thinking person.


Good post.

You can see for yourself if it's true or not from Comapanies House.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Spartacus
From Scottish Football League Rules,

21. DUAL INTERESTS IN CLUBS


21.3 For the purposes of this Rule 21 (Dual Interests in Clubs):-

“person” includes, without limitation, an individual, partnership, consortium,
unincorporated body or association, and any other organisation having legal
capacity.

“club” means a football club in membership or associate membership of
the League and any football club in membership of the F.A. Premier League,
The Football League, The Scottish Premier League or the Irish Premier
League. “associate” means:

21.3.1 if the person is an individual:-

21.3.1.1 a close relative of that individual, including his spouse, civil partner, parents,
step or adoptive parents, child, step or adopted children, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece, or a child, step or adopted child of such parent, spouse or civil partner or anyone else of close relationship to the individual who, in the opinion of the Board, is or is likely to be acting in conjunction with the individual or influenced by him;

If the rumours in this thread are true, then Rule 21 is surely on the balance of probabilities being breached in the eyes of any reasonable thinking person.


What was thought to be evidence was presented to SFA years ago during the broony era. We quoted the above rule and were told there was no conclusive evidence therefor no case to answer. At the time, we were made out to be nothing but trouble makers.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Kerriann
What was thought to be evidence was presented to SFA years ago during the broony era. We quoted the above rule and were told there was no conclusive evidence therefor no case to answer. At the time, we were made out to be nothing but trouble makers.


To be fair, you WERE making trouble. Trouble for someone who wanted no questions asked, because he had something to hide, something to lose. You shouldn't let that accusation put you off asking the question again.
If dual ownership exists, it can be proved. You just need harder evidence than you had before.
But what next? If the major shareholder had to sell his interest in East Fife, there has to be a buyer. Is there one? No there isn't. And if there isn't a buyer, is there a danger that the owner will turn against the club, putting it in jeopardy? Yes.
If these last two points frighten you off, then that is exactly why the current ownership of the club has to be addressed in public. As long as we condone this shady business by saying nothing, when we do know what is going on, we are complicit in the owner's deceit as he puts EFFC's future at risk by breaking SFA and SFL rules.
Rankine can be forced to account for his involvement, but it would take guts and a thick skin to flush him out. He himself has those characteristics, and he used them to force Brown McMaster to resign from the SFL because of a dual interest that was microscopic compared to his own true position. We're letting him take East Fife for a ride.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Watcher
Kerriann
What was thought to be evidence was presented to SFA years ago during the broony era. We quoted the above rule and were told there was no conclusive evidence therefor no case to answer. At the time, we were made out to be nothing but trouble makers.


To be fair, you WERE making trouble. Trouble for someone who wanted no questions asked, because he had something to hide, something to lose. You shouldn't let that accusation put you off asking the question again.
If dual ownership exists, it can be proved. You just need harder evidence than you had before.
But what next? If the major shareholder had to sell his interest in East Fife, there has to be a buyer. Is there one? No there isn't. And if there isn't a buyer, is there a danger that the owner will turn against the club, putting it in jeopardy? Yes.
If these last two points frighten you off, then that is exactly why the current ownership of the club has to be addressed in public. As long as we condone this shady business by saying nothing, when we do know what is going on, we are complicit in the owner's deceit as he puts EFFC's future at risk by breaking SFA and SFL rules.
Rankine can be forced to account for his involvement, but it would take guts and a thick skin to flush him out. He himself has those characteristics, and he used them to force Brown McMaster to resign from the SFL because of a dual interest that was microscopic compared to his own true position. We're letting him take East Fife for a ride.


I think the way I saw it was that we weren't making trouble for the SFA, just the person involved. If you know how to get proof then I'd love to know. There is no paper trail only hearsay and the fact that the twiggs share a hoose with Rankine. Not enough for the SFA.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

The most important issue out of all this for me is the fact that we really have no idea what the 'long term' reasons for investment in East Fife are.

I think we can strongly speculate that its not tied to love of East Fife . So we have a situation, where East Fife has been bought for non footballing reasons and there is no transparency with regards to what these real reason are (though they will undoutably be tied to making money) and as a result no accountability.

Its literally everything thats wrong with football. The indirect dual ownership route seems obvious and it probably the only way we can get any truth from the situation. Though judging by the way the SFA is run, the evidence would have to be bullet-proof, and i guess thats the biggest problem.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Kerriann

... the fact that the twiggs share a hoose with Rankine.


Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

Kerriann
I think the way I saw it was that we weren't making trouble for the SFA, just the person involved. If you know how to get proof then I'd love to know. There is no paper trail only hearsay and the fact that the twiggs share a hoose with Rankine. Not enough for the SFA.


OK. That doesn't have to be the end of it. I'd say it is a good start.
The biggest obstacle might be the following phrase in the SFA rulebook: "in the opinion of the Board". You could have cast iron evidence, but the SFA has the right to say "not in our opinion, you don't". But the new chief executive has made it clear that he will not tolerate this kind of corruption.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

win the lottery and buy the erseholes out.

Re: Can someone break all this shareholder/owner/whatever stuff down for the uneducated?

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=8699