IUSSCAA Message Board


UNCLASSIFIED, NON-POLITICAL, and  NON-SENSITIVE POSTS ONLY
IUSSCAA Posting Guidelines


IUSSCAA Wallpapers
Ocean Night 1280x1024 1024X768 800X600
Mid-Watch   1280x1024 1024X768 800X600



IUSSCAA Message Board
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: No more ratings...

Rick Greatting
And here is where you can go vote to express your displeasure (if you are so inclined). 100,000 signatures are required to have the petition looked at and it is at about 40% in less than 3 days.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-traditional-navy-rating-specialty-titles-disestablished-9292016

Rick


I signed it as well. I just checked status (100919 EDT Oct); about 70.3K have signed the petition. Another 29.7K signatures needed for a White House reply. Tracking down a copy of Navy Times to see if the active fleet gives a rodent's backside.

Re: No more ratings...

Lorren Jackson
Rick Greatting
And here is where you can go vote to express your displeasure (if you are so inclined). 100,000 signatures are required to have the petition looked at and it is at about 40% in less than 3 days.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-traditional-navy-rating-specialty-titles-disestablished-9292016

Rick


I signed it as well. I just checked status (100919 EDT Oct); about 70.3K have signed the petition. Another 29.7K signatures needed for a White House reply. Tracking down a copy of Navy Times to see if the active fleet gives a rodent's backside.


Here's a SITREP for those who care:

It's 152359 EDT Oct. The current signature count on the petition is 73.3K. that's about 3000 sigs since my last whine on 10 Oct. 100,000 signatures are needed for the White House to even "look" at it (whatever the he....ck that means). The CUTOFF DATE is 29 Oct. That means we need about 2000 signatures a DAY, just to get that "look." Not likely to happen, it seems.

I saw a few letters to Navy Times earlier tonight. The disdain for the change was just about universal. I hoped to add my two cents, and remind people about the signature deadline, so I spent about 45 minutes looking at the Times online, trying to find the address for "letters to the editor." No luck.

And SOMEPLACE on line, I also saw all sorts of letters/posts complaining about the change. I'm not smart enough to know where I saw them, but I'm sure it was NOT Navy Times; a lot of the letters were pretty vile, and would not have appeared in the Times! I wonder if those letter writers bothered to take the time on the petition.

Have YOU SIGNED IT? OR EVEN LOOKED AT IT?

I'm absolutely dismayed that the active Navy enlisted community (and maybe some officers too), combined with USN retirees, combined with USN VETS...is unable to muster 100,000 e-signatures on a FREE document!

I guess we deserve what we get. The Army has "HOOAH!" The Marines have "OOH RAH!" It's looking like The USN shout...at least for white hats...should be "BOHICA!"

(I'm done...thanks for reading...if you happen to know the addy for letters to Navy Times, please let me know. I have to try.)

BOHICA!!!!!!!

Re: No more ratings...

As I understand it, Navy wide advancement exams are going away also.

Re: No more ratings...

Now that is a two part formula for disaster at sea.

Re: No more ratings...

I signed the petition!

Re: No more ratings...

Good!!! Although from what I've been reading this CNO seems to think his bright idea is just a "tempest in a tea cup" that only a minority object to.

Rick

Re: No more ratings... & other changes

Well this sounds very interesting . . . changes all over. The new female cover will be the same design as the males, with a slight modification to fit the female hair issue - long, short, full, flat, whatever. It was way back in 2004 or such that I was saying that the Armed Forces will have 1 uniform, with the different platforms designated by color - land, sea, air - and different patches reflective of that platform. Dress uniforms would remain for dress affairs, but daily uniforms would be just one style. I was guessing that it would be competed by 2050. Looks like the changes have begun. Imagine how much money the DOD would save. And imagine how many jobs & companies would cease to exist. Just look back at the old green log books that our lives revolved around. Are they still out there being used for so many things? Nope - gone all electronic, a good/bad thing as we all know.
Rate advancement is determined by the year you enlisted, not by the number of bodies needed for that rate. Gone will be the days of PNA, you know with 6 billets opened for the next rank but 200 passing the exam. Sadly, our Navy believed that everyone, absolutely EVERYONE has/had to keep advancing up the ladder. It didn't matter that not all bodies are cut out for the top, not to forget that the TOP is very limited & in great NEED of support from below. Then again, it was a tool to cut out people from the ranks, who didn't advance - you know, cost savings. But what was lost by that action. If an OTA2 was a **** hot reader, yet a lousy plotter, what was gained by pushing that person to advance & what was lost by advancing that OTA2 to plotter. It would be an interesting conversation. Last I heard, the Royal Navy was a bit more advanced than the US in this area.

Re: No more ratings...

As most of you know, the Navy - in its infinite wisdom - is doing away with the enlisted rating structure. From AB to YN, all will be gone! According to what I read, this vital quest began as an effort to promote and ensure gender equality, but it evolved into a need to simplify the “confusing” rating structure. I was never confused about the structure of the 88 (in our glory days) ratings. Heck, we all knew what ML, OM, and SW ratings did…right? OK, maybe the dang AX/AZ brownshoes gave me some difficulty. But we generally knew. I understand the elimination/consolidation of many ratings that has occurred in recent years. I don’t like it, but I understand it. Technology forces progress.

I’m old. I forget more now. But I recall the PN introducing a new arrival by their rating: “This is RM2 Zapp, GM1 Recoil, or Senior Chief (seems like the rating was left out - we just sort of understood!) Halyard.” Of course, everyone was in uniform, so it was east to tell rate (and often, rating).

But in 27 years of Naval service (and nearly that long as a cranky old retiree), almost every “white hat” I ever met introduced themselves as “Petty Officer David” or “Chief Jones.” I don’t recall an unfamiliar enlisted ever introducing themselves as “I’m Mess Management Specialist 2nd Class Doe.” If we wanted such detail, we simply asked. I believe the same simplicity is applied when a sailor is greeting the Great Unwashed (civilian community). Most civilians have no clue what a “petty officer“ is, let alone what a BM, SK, EN, or STS does. Heck - those aren‘t even words! We sailors learned very quickly to “K.I.S.S.” with our non-military brethern/sistern.

There is some good news, though. The term “Seaman” will be retained. “Mariner” was discarded; “Seaperson” was apparently never considered. But Fireman, Airman, Constructionman - all will be gone. Petty Officers will referred to as “Petty Officer3/2/1” and “Master/Senior/Chief Petty Officer,” as appropriate. Every rating will go to the bone yard. Every job will be a Naval Occupational Specialty (NOS). Sort of like the Army. And the Air Force.

My issue is absolutely NOT with gender equality! Or any equality, for that matter. I was an OT, remember! About 33% of my divisions/departments were female. My last SIX Division Officerss/Department Heads were female. Do the job…meet the mission…get the stripes!

My issue is with the surgical removal of yet another Navy tradition, and a useful one at that. Knowing right away what a shipmate’s job was; the rivalry between ratings, the PRIDE in one’s own specialty. “Skimmer” STGs hassling “bubblehead” STSs. Snipes versus deck pukes. And we’ve all seen the AB gang's' winged anchor insignia on the “island” of every CVN in the fleet - THAT’S PRIDE! No big deal though. Just paint out those anchors and stencil in their NOS. I wish I knew what - if anything - the USCG is doing with this.

I just realized - “”Master Chief” is a bit sexist, if you analyze it. “Mistress Chief” is totally not workable. Maybe the powers that be should rename the E-9 Navy positions to “two star CPO” and “three star CPO” as appropriate.

Will the Navy continue to meet its mission? Of course! But will we lose a bit of… something….. esprit?… along the way? I think so.

Re: No more ratings...

Well I did some searching & found Wikipedia listing the different Dept categories - 01,02,03, etc.etc.etc. Slowly reading the 04 Sonar Technician Dept, there IUSS is listed as 0506, 0507, 0509. How many OTA's were designated as a 0509?

Re: No more ratings...

Former shipmates & all who visit this site:

For what it's worth, my thoughts on this subject align almost EXACTLY with those expressed by my former (NavFac Adak) shipmate, Loren Jackson; who said it so precisely and passionately. There is nothing that I could add to his post other than a BZ to him for hitting the nail on the head.

Many times (almost always) I would strongly agree with John Ellis and valued his opinion more times than I can remember. On this one, however, I would have to disagree:
(1) As for those in the System, we ALL understood what OTCM and OTMC stood for. While the "M" may have clouded the two designations a bit, EVERYONE in the Navy knew what the ending letter stood for, regardless of the rating (C for Chief, S for Senior Chief and M for Master Chief). For example, in the YN rating; it was YNC, YNCS and YNCM. And in the ST rating; it was STC, STCS and STCM. This was true for all ratings.
(2) As far as it being confusing for those outside the Navy....who cares?
(3) I don't think it simplifies much of anything. We, as all the other services, have the same 9-tiered system with the various NEC's within them (MOS's for other services).

I believe that this is just another example of the "equality" quest that this country is on, where everyone has to feel they are on the same level and no one can be offended, by anyone or anything. College campuses around the country are a prime example of this nonsence.As American citizens we all have the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. But no where do I recall that we have the right to not be offended. Same for sporting events - everyone has to get a medal or trophy; all they have to do is "show up". This is destroying the competitive spirit that differentiates "mediocre" from "superior" performance. And, while the media and elites would have us believe differently - yes, there are distinct differences between men and women. That is not to say that one is superior to the other, rather is is a biological, mental and physical fact.

Best to all of you,

Irv


Re: No more ratings...

Sad to see this happen, but I also remember (as I'm sure most on here will) the loss of the Dixie cup, the changes to the uniforms (remember everyone having a dress uniform "suit" and no place to store them on the ship?) The "improved" working uniform which replaced my seafarer jeans, The top that didn't tuck in, but let in all kinds of drafts every time you moved your arms.....These idiotic changes cost the Nav a fortune an, thankfully, didn't last too long....Hopefully sanity will someday come to the fore and again we can have our hard earned rating badges back again!

Re: No more ratings...

As of 1400 EDT today (23 Oct), 85K have signed. Seven days left, and 15k more signatures needed for the US Navy enlisted rating petition to even be "looked at" by the powers that be:

"The White House Reviews and Responds

Once the petition reaches the required threshold, it will be put in a queue to be reviewed by the White House. Others can still sign the petition while it is awaiting a response. When the White House responds, everyone who has signed the petition will get email from the White House to let you know that we’ve reviewed and responded to the petition."

Do you care? If so, have you signed?

Re: No more ratings...on a lighter note?

Makes me wonder...

if Medical & Dental officers will have to cut the acorn nuts off their Corps insignia. In fact, why NOT get rid of all the line/staff officer insignia? Aren't they "confusing" as well? no?

Officers already have designators, yes? Like 1100..or...whatever? similar to the Navy Occupation Specialty that "rag hats" (anyone else recall that term?) will have.

Re: No more ratings...on a lighter note?

I would be willing to bet, that you will be able to find an OBG/YNMC on an aircraft carrier in the future.

Re: No more ratings...

I am happy to report - the "Save the Ratings" petition has hit the 101,000+ mark within the 30 day period! This doesn't mean the ratings are restored; it simply means that "someone" higher up in the food chain will examine the petition, etc. It's a start, at least. Stay tuned for the next exciting chapter.

I have to admit, I did NOT think the petition would reach the 100K mark. I'm glad to see it has! Now pardon me while I dine on some well-done crow.

Visits: