Welcome to the original English language Poland and Polish discussion group board. This message forum is a place where English-speaking Poles, foreigners (expats) living in Poland, and anyone with a genuine interest in Poland can discuss and read the views of others concerning Poland. Subjects include: Polish news and current affairs; Life in Poland; politics; genealogy research; Polish culture and history; advice and tips on visiting Poland; Polish property and investment issues. The aim of our group is to increase awareness of wonderful Poland using the English language and allow and foster the honest debate and exchange of opinions on anything vaguely related to Poland and Polish - positive, negative and/or neutral! To state the obvious: all opinions and views expressed on this site are solely those of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of anyone else! Messages consisting of ads will be deleted.
It's not so easy to join the group .
Robert just asked that the message be added to the board. Why he wants a Polish worker is obvious. The pay is well below what an English worker would be paid for the same work and it's only a temporary position.
This is exactly the sort of thing that makes Polish people leave Poland to come to the UK. While at the same time there are a huge number of people on benefits in the uk.
Money! Isn't that why you are here Ania?
£5.74 My local shop has an advert for a tractor driver farmhand and offers £7.50 -£10.00 dependin on experiance, thats why a Pole would be cheap.
Yes that is why they leave, Money, Money Money.
that is why brits go and work in the Middle east.
"Money! Isn't that why you are here Ania"
Honestly Dajwid will you STOP confusing me with someone else!
I was born here and had no say in the matter. My dad ended up here after WWII and escaping siberia and the soviets. He Could NOT go back because he would have been shot by the soviets. He went through the mill being in a Nazi POW camp for about a year too. In fact he was given a choice in 1948 when he was being disbanded from the Polish division of the american army in Munich. He could have gone to america but he chose England because he so liked the country and he was always very patriotic to Britain.
I am NOT an economic refugee and I would have loved to have been born in Poland and lived in my own country where I didn't have a strange surname that nobody can pronounce. I have grown to love the UK and to Poles in Poland I am considered an "Angielka" but when I was a child it was not easy growing up somewhere different from your culture where I had no roots. You cannot possibly understand the stress this puts on a child unless you have been through it and in the 70s when people did not know where Poland was.
Another Ania - money, money, money.
Honestly, disgraceful - an economic migrant before you were even born!
So in fact you are English mot Polish.
Haven't you thought of moving to live in Poland?
I know who and what I am Dajwid.
I have thought about moving to Poland. I know quite a few people who were born here and have moved successfully. However, as you know yourself it's not easy to just move from one country and culture to another. Plus I have many things to tie me to the UK because this is where I was born and have lived all my life. However, I am drawn to the idea of living in Poland at times.
What made you move to Poland? Why Poland?
Look - it's Davey Boy who asks the questions around here.
Lol Varsovian - while shining a light in my eyes and depriving me of sleep no doubt.
He has ways and means with migrants ...
"Robert just asked that the message be added to the board. Why he wants a Polish worker is obvious. The pay is well below what an English worker would be paid for the same work and it's only a temporary position. "
In fact farm labouring jobs in the UK are apallingly badly-paid regardless of the nationality. That's why people don't want to do them and farmers have to look for migrant workers.
But a British person would earn the same.
I think thg usual rate is rather more tahn he is offering. But, yes, pay for farm workers is not high. Strange as the farmers themselves often drive about in expensive Range Rovers and the like. Somebody is making money.
Ania, I left my job in the UK to travel around Europe. I started in Poland as it seemed different. I was there about a month then carried on with my travels, had a great time but enjoys the huge cultural diffence in Poland. I went back and got a teaching job within a couple of days, met a polish girl..... At 1st I worked in Warsaw but the lady was from the tricity so I moved and that is were I spent the next 13 years, opened a language school, worked in a kindergarten, worked a head of a school and kindergarten. Loved my time there but when I got fed up with the work I know it was time to give up. My wife was stressed with all the madness involved in running a small company in Poland, I was fed up with fighting with local offices with crazy rules desighned to bribed around, we left and came back to The UK after running our last Summercamps last Summer.
I love Poland, Loved my job (but had anough), loved most of the poles I met, Hate the red tape, bribing, drivers, I'm important attitude.
Now back here love my job, still spend most of my time with Poles, still shop in the local Polish shop, pop over to Poland very often. Still make sure we speak Polish as much as poss at home for the childrens sake.
I plan on returning to Poland when the government gets itself sorted out,and the children are over school age.
Still have property in Kaszuby and looking for more.
Wow that was a long answer to a very simple question
Ooops sorry this has nothing to do with farmer needed.
"Hate the red tape, bribing, drivers, I'm important attitude."
It's the same sort of reasons that I am wary of going to live there yet. They are still trying to figure out how to run the place post communism. I think it puzzles them immensely so they just create more red tape to make it look as if they know what they are doing.
Unfortunately the "I'm important" attitude may take longer to sort out. Part of it I think goes back to the way the Polish aristocracy used to behave. Rather lacking in noblesse oblige. Mind you I guess a lot of european aristocracy was corrupt and self inflated.
I was discussing the attitude of Poles abroad with my mother recently. She was saying that in Poland people used to be taught that Poland is the most important, best country in the world and that they are the greatest cleverest people etc etc. So when they go abroad with this attitude they get a bit of a shock to find that the rest of the world does not necessarily share this view....
"Part of it I think goes back to the way the Polish aristocracy used to behave. "
The people Dajwid is talking about are lowly half-witted plebs who have wangled jobs in government offices because their mother or aunt works there.
Aristocrats are very difficult to find in Poland!
"She was saying that in Poland people used to be taught that Poland is the most important, best country in the world and that they are the greatest cleverest people etc etc. So when they go abroad with this attitude they get a bit of a shock to find that the rest of the world does not necessarily share this view...."
Let's be honest. Nobody outside Poland shares this opinion !
I was thinking more of what Hans says than the Poland is great attitude. Everyone in a pathetic job thinks they are god.
"Everyone in a pathetic job thinks they are god. "
Agreed. This is clearly one of the worst aspects of Poland. I'm not a violent man. And I've had few contacts with these types, but when I have, have almost always felt like punching the brainless bitch behind the counter in the face!
My wife now deals with all such contact for me.
What I was saying is that this attitude stems from the way aristocracy used to behave in Poland. Hans dearest, I think you missed my point. I am not talking about now, I am talking about a historically prevalent attitude. It does well to remember when dealing with such people that such attitudes stem entirely from insecurity about status.
"Everyone in a pathetic job thinks they are god. "
I have come across this attitude most in America at the airport.
In Poland people are generally polite to me and not condescending. However, I have not had the pleasure of dealing with petty bureaucrats when over there. I have come across the attitude in the past more so than these days. When I went to Poland aged 13 I was once sent on an errand to buy some water or juice from a shop. The woman was so mean to me that I fled in tears without my purchase. It was the way she spoke to me that terrified me. The attitude was highly prevalent during communism and these days I am pleasantly surprised at how people act in shops. I cannot say the same for anyone I've deal with in Warsaw.....Still that is a regional argument
By the way I am very familiar with the "more important than anyone" attitude because I grew up wtih it as Polish communities in London were full of rich Polish artistocracy who had fled Poland. Some of the snooty snobby attitude remains but it has on the whole thankfully disappeared.
I am not aristocracy but I do have a posh surname which is impronounceable.
As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a Polish aristocrat .
Aristocracy doesn't matter any more Hans. It's part of a bygone age.
I am sure that the lady in the post office in a small village has very little to do with polish aristocrats. She is just a pole with a very tiny bit of power. The polish dream for the uneducated, power!
No I will not stamp the book unless you beg me. No you can not have the form because I say so.
I was talking about an attitude that used to exist in Poland in a bygone era which has been taken on by all classes since communism. I was not talking about aristocrats now. Seems to be going right over everyone's head so I must be explaining it all wrong.
A little bit of humility and courtesy go a long way to making for a civil society. In any country the upper and lower classes are rarely the paragons of interpersonal decency. I us with caution the term “intelligentsia” and hope not to connote any snobbism but rather to refer to a layer of society with common traits that allow for an egalitarianism of position and purpose. Often this layer is confused with the econo-social concept of “middle class” but only occupies the same economic level, but not the social. I mention this because of the high level of loss this societal level sustained in the War and post War years. This layer was the specific target of both the Soviets and Nazis and is discernable, by example, in the list of victims of Katyn. So many were reserve officers but significantly it was their non-military positions which made them targets: librarians, municipal engineers, architects, school administrators etc. Not positions of wealth or special power and certainly in pre-war Poland positions from which one would be sacked for incompetence.
It takes a society a long time to rebuild that societal stratum. Consider that for a half century after the war the system did nothing to allow this layer to re-constitute itself and actively created frameworks to prevent its existence. Given some time, and a free self determining society, it will become more prevalent.
I do sometimes wish that people would give Poland a chance to sort itself out and show a bit more understanding of the effects of 50 years of communism and isolation from the outside world.
Maybe, but how long should we all wait?
Other countries seem to have sorted them selves out, why wait longer for the Poles?
If Poland is fifty years behind we can't expect miracles in fifteen. Things however ARE changing all the time - they will learn. This is also why they need workers to be over there and not being enticed to the UK by british organisations.
I don't know much about some of the other new EU countries but I don't see that places like Italy or Greece have sorted themselves out exactly. Post franco Spain in the 80s was a nightmare to travel across. Portugal was third world. It's all relative.
Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia the list goes on.
Sadly Poland the Tiger of Europe just 10 years ago is slowly becoming the laughing stock.
Why the 50 years of rubbish again? Move on! real Poles have given up on Poland and are leaving in thousands every day. Can't they see the ship is sinking fast. Arresting a war criminal won't change a thing, talking about the war won't change a thing.
Dajwid why on earth are you bothered? You don't live there any more. Do you feel this need to vent because you are still angry about the treatment you had when you got back to the UK with your benefits and all? I mean you are back here now, enjoy england.
Probably because he lived in the country for so long, hs a Polish wife and children, and still owns property there. You don't actually have to live in a country to have an interest in it.
The 50 years is significant for two reasons. The first is that processes and effects that inherently take time are precluded so as to retard progress and keep elements backward. The second is that the almost two generation gap means certain practices and principles that are societally taught cannot hibernate to re-surface but must be re-learned and re-taught.
Remember, if you will, the twelve people that most influenced you in your formative years on matters of civil interaction, altruistic behavior, public service, public courtesy, professional demeanor, charitable sharing, and engaging communication. Now imagine that the day before you were born they were all killed. Where would you have learned those lessons, who would be your role models? If on the day after they were all killed and for fifty years following, all those traits were suppressed, how does a society reconstitute those traits?
In the 1980’s and ‘90’s the United States had the most advanced analogue telephone system in the world. In the ‘90’s I saw more mobile, cellular and digital phones on Polish streets than anywhere in the U.S.
When necessary you can go to the store and erase 50 years of technological retardation with a simple transaction. But where does go to acquire social mores? I truly believe that if not suppressed, humans have the inherent ability to establish within their societies such elemental good. This process takes time. I suspect that many of the students you taught would someday put you on their list of one dozen. We all await the day their influence on their society predominates.
A down to earth example of how history influences our lives:
600 people unexpectadly had to bale out of their flats in the centre of Warsaw today (Bagno street and Plac Grzybowski area) due to the exploration of a bomb containing 120 kg of explosive materials, the bomb was dropped in 1944. The authorities not only had to take care of the bomb but also to provide shelter from the heat for elderly people living in the area.
Dajwid why on earth are you bothered? You don't live there any more.
Ania that being the case, why do you care you have never lived there, and probably never will. Wher as I will return because I really care.
slepowron I assume you mean it takes Poles longer to change than all the other Eastern European countries, why is that do you think?
I can’t speak for “all” the other Eastern European countries. But I do not believe that to be the case either specifically or generally. Each is dealing with the erasure of 50 years in its own way. It’s not as if Romania, Lithuania, Slovakia, Cesko, Bulgaria, or Hungary are famous for ease of obtaining documents, health registration etc.
But my or your opinions may be too subjective here.
A more objective measure may be economics.
FDI inflow, USD million
Albania………..…… 58 ……..53…..….70…… 90…..….48.…….45……. 41……143.……200
Bosnia and Herzegovina …………………….……………………..100……. 90…….150 ….130
Bulgaria…..….4 ….….40..……105…… 90…….109…....505….... 537……819…. 1002…..689
Croatia …….……... 120.…...117…….. 121.….516…… 551…. 1014…….1637….1126… 1502
Moldova . ….…….…14 …….12….. 67….…. 24…….. 79.……..76..….…40..…..143……. 149
Romania ….………. 94…… 341…… 419…..263….…1215......2031…… 1041…. 1040…1137
Yugoslavia ... . . . . ……….……………………………..740 .….113 …….112……. 25……..165
"Ania that being the case, why do you care you have never lived there, and probably never will. "
Because it is the land where my family live and where my ancestors lived, the land of my cultural roots and I am ethnically Polish and Polish was my first language. That won't change however anglicised I become. It's an attachment like an uncut invisible umbilical cord.
I wonder if any of the 199 times this thread has been read over the last couple of days (up to now), were by a potential farm worker checking out the job offer !?!
unlikely to be a potential Polish farm worker if, as you have said in the past, most Poles do not speak English.
Ask J.B or Magdalena about English language skills among Poles, if you don't believe me!
Now I'm logging off to read a book.
Most Poles do not speak English. That is a fact. Many living in the UK too.
I can honestly say that most law students at Warsaw University have poor English writing skills.
Message: UGRUNTOWANA FIRMA INZYNIERYJNA
W WEYMOUTH (POLUDNIOWE WYBRZEZE)
POTRZEBUJE OD ZARAZ:
Aplikacje w j. angielskim prosze wysylac
na adres: firstname.lastname@example.org
Lub dzwonic pod nr 07941719724 (+447941719724)
•20 spawaczy MIG
•4 spawaczy TIG
Z doswiadczeniem w spawaniu
aluminium i stali oraz certyfikatem.
Kontrakt na 3 lata, wynagrodzenie
tygodniowe £331.50 (po opodatkowaniu)
przy 39h pracy. Mozliwa praca zmianowa
i nadgodziny. Pomagamy z zakwaterowaniem,
a takze z transportem z lotniska
na miejsce pracy. Wiek nie gra roli,
jednak wymagamy udokumentowanego
doswiadczenia od kandydatów. Komunikatywny
angielski bedzie dodatkowym atutem.
OK, maybe I do agree with the exploitaion points made above. A quick look on jobcentre site and there are jobs welding for £12-£14 per hour.
Also not many Poles use this site looking for work, surely if you need a Pole that speaks English the Ad would be in English, then you would also get Chech, slovakian, Lithuanian ......... Not only Poles. You never know you might even get an unemployed Brit.