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Great reading

I picked this up in the Polish consul yesterday, they are given to most poles. I was given the book not link of course.

http://www.zpwb.org.uk/pl/Jak_zyc_i_pracowac_w_Wielkiej_Brytanii.pdf

For non Polish readers it is a booklet how to live and work in the UK. Great book, where to find work, doctors, phones internet. How to claim Tax credits, get a council house. I love the dictionary in the back.

At least the consulate is helping the Poles in the UK, doing a great job.

Before Ania attacks, Yes I know it is not published by the Consulate. It is given out by them though.

I think the British consul in Warsaw should print one.
'jak kombinowac i dawac Lapowki'



Can't really translate that.

The section on social help for non Poles would be very short indeed

Re: Great reading

The Daily Mail should see this .

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Neil this is produced by the Federation of Poles in the UK. You will find that the organisation concerned has produced this in liaison with UK authorities because of the huge influx. This is saving british organisations work in informing people who don't speak the language of what to do rather than sleeping rough or ending up victims of crime etc. They have helped get people who turn up without money at victoria off the street and they work with the Police and councils to ease the burden. They are a sort of buffer between the consulate and social services and such. You will find that many councils are now starting to produce similar information and they do this to stop social and welfare problems etc.

You will be pleased to know there is a section telling Poles about the fact that racism is unacceptable in the UK. There is also a section on where to find a Polish church. How to get around. The fact that you drive on the left. It also discusses the importance of polite good behaviour. Respect for women even. Gestures not acceptable to brits. E.g. do not ask personal questions brits like their privacy and it is rude to ask how much they earn. It warns about rogue landlords. Talks about highway code, road tax, mot. How to check a job offer is genuine. I am personally very impressed by this leaflet. This is all good stuff and all the things english people moan about on this forum are addressed in this leaflet. It is telling people how to behave responsibly in this country.

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As Dajwid says it seems to highlight how to scrounge welfare benefits and get a council house.

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"Before Ania attacks, Yes I know it is not published by the Consulate. It is given out by them though."

Dajwid I knew they were putting together some info to help deal with the all the problems social services and such were having because I am involved in the Polish community here, but this is a really impressive publication.

I am particularly pleased that they are addressing things like socially unacceptable behaviour and respect for others. I cannot imagine that the daily mail or any other paper could have anything but praise for the content. It is very comprehensive and has been intelligently researched to cover all areas.

Re: Great reading

Neil it covers all aspects of accommodation. This is because people were coming here and sleeping rough. Social services and the police cannot cope alone.

Polish organisations have tried to help where they can. However they cannot do that for everyone who is lured here by bogus organisations or by the farmer browns of this world. The influx has created problems for Polish organisations in the UK too you know. This sort of booklet has been produced with the british organisations involvement not outside it. Would you prefer more rough sleepers instead?

Re: Great reading

I think that British newspapers would be outraged if they got hold of this.
It blatently promotes living on welfare. As I said many good bits but lots on how to claim, and where.
Very naughty.

Re: Great reading

Why is it "very naughty" Dajwid? Is it a secret? It is hardly as if it is on the first page. The document also tells people how to pay all relevant taxes and such so that they can work legally and not on the black market. You seem to be taking one bit that you do not like and disregarding the rest.

If there are rules in the UK that you do not agree with then that is a problem you have with the british government and not a Polish problem. The document states the rules in a very unbiased and matter of fact way.

There is nothing naughty about transparency of information. There is a government drive to be open and transparent in all governmental information. I assume this is covered in the freedom to information act 2000.

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Perhaps, he feels the widespread claiming of welfare benefits by immigrants to be inappropriate? With one hundred thousand Poles and other Eastern Europeans economic migrants, now claiming welfare benefits in the UK, and publications explaining in detail (in Polish) how to leech off the system, it's hardly surprising.

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This publication is, however, hardly unique. The popular Polish newspaper like Praca za granica (Work Abroad) and you'll notice that every issue is promoting welfare tourism to the UK.

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Hans have you read the leaflet? If so what do you think of the rest of it?

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Ania Sorry.
Do you honestly agree that the Polish consulate is handing out booklets explaining how to get tax credits and council housing?

I complained about the magazine Praca za Granica a long time ago.

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Dajwid it is not a naughty leaflet. I've already explained why it was produced so why can you not have an informed debate rather than just ignoring the facts and repeating your narrow interpretation?

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"Do you honestly agree that the Polish consulate is handing out booklets explaining how to get tax credits and council housing?'

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“The popular Polish newspaper like Praca za granica (Work Abroad) and you'll notice that every issue is promoting welfare tourism to the UK”

It’s free market. The British government encouraged this massive wave of Polish immigrants. What you describe here are merely consequences of their policy decision.

Criticize these publications all you want, but at the end of the day, it only illustrates that these Poles are creative and are taking full advantage of the opportunity created for them by the British.

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Don't agree.

Welfare parasites = the lowest form of life.

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“Perhaps, he feels the widespread claiming of welfare benefits by immigrants to be inappropriate? With one hundred thousand Poles and other Eastern Europeans economic migrants, now claiming welfare benefits in the UK, and publications explaining in detail (in Polish) how to leech off the system, it's hardly surprising.”

That’s ridiculous. The system is obviously broken and needs fixing. Again, this only shows how creative some of these people are.

I personally do not condone such actions but it is what it is. Blame the British government for allowing it to happen.

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“Welfare parasites = the lowest form of life.”

Agree 100%. But I feel that the blame here falls more on the policy makers who allow it to happen.

Whenever you have generous welfare you will have fraudulent claims.

If an economically desperate immigrant can so easily tap into the welfare system upon arrival in Britain, then who is to blame – the government or the immigrant?

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By the way, for many years prior to 1989 West Germany had the policy of enticing cheap (Turkish) labor with generous welfare benefits. Now they are paying the consequences (by they I meant the German taxpayer).

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Agreed. Big, big mistake.

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The benefits that East Europeans now receive in England pale in comparison to what immigrants used to get in West Germany (free housing, schooling, medical care). This went on until the East and West re-united.

Nothing but big government socialism

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One million Poles are claiming free schooling and medical care in the UK. All residents of the UK get this.

100,000 Poles are now in receipt of welfare benefits - cash handouts, free medical prescriptions, child benefit, subsidized public housing, etc.

600+ new economic immigrants are thought to arrive every single day in London from Poland.

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Watch the number of Poles claiming welfare handouts in the UK sky-rocket, now that full details are now readilly available in Polish.

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If you are going to comment on it then maybe you should read the entire leaflet not just one para .

The first advert is a Polish translated advert by the public workers union unison. Now unison is not a Polish organisation so it is presumed the Ad is there at their wish.

The next parts tell people where the consulates are located.
The location of Polish churches and parishes
ethnic minorities in the UK
racism
cultural differences and customs

Next section - accommodation in the UK
Hotels
B&Bs
Hostels
rented flats
rented rooms
house purchase
mortgages

next section - transport and telecommunications
Airlines flying to Poland
Coaches from Poland to the UK
inter-town buses
trains
London transport :
underground
oyster card (travelcard used on underground and buses)
buses
taxis
cars
telecommunication :
Mobiles
landlines
cheap calls to Poland
internet

Next section :Jobs
how to look for work
voluntary work
how to check credibility of employers
employee or self employed
WRS - workers registration programme
formalities of remuneration and deductions from salary
National insurance number
registration of self employment
CIS card
CSCS card
Self assessment in the UK (income tax reporting)
Income tax in Poland
rights of workers
rest breaks at work
hours of work
night work
holiday
employment contract
sick leave
minimum wage (I think)
tips and gratuities(I think)
special rights for agency staff
other employment law
dispute resolution - ACAS
British unions :
TUC
Unison
Amicus
T&G
GMB
UCATT
USDAW
Community

next section Basic formalities :
bank accounts
transfer of money
driving licence
Drivers registration
MOT
Road tax
car insurance
congestion charge

Next section :

NHS
medical care and registration with GP
E111
Welfare :
Working tax credit
housing benefit
child tax credit
Child benefit
Your status :
temporary residency
electoral register

Next section : Education
language courses
studying in the UK:
further education
entry requirements
procedure for university application (UCAS)
Child education
Polish saturday school
association of Polish teachers abroad

Next section : useful info
Polish media (assume press) in the UK
British media
Emergencies :
homelessness
house insurance (I think)
theft
loss
where to phone in case of emergency
Advice centres :
Citizens advice bureau
Law for all
East belfast independent centre
etc

Self help groups :

Alcoholics anonymous
narcotics anonymous

Compensation
Polish information brochure


glossary of English terms

Re: Great reading

This is not therefore a leaflet encouraging Poles to claim benefits. Note that the employment and tax system comes before benefits. To have left benefits out would have been an error of ommission in such a detailed guide. Nothing has been left out. The leaflet as I have said is extremely comprehensive and has been intelligently researched. I can't fault it.

You might want to read it in full before jumping to conclusions.

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Any encouragement to welfare dependency among immigrants should be discouraged. I have already contacted my contact at the DM about this. Expect an article in the next day or so.

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lol hans perhaps you can keep us updated as to when it is published.

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I can also recommend the Daily Express and Daily Telegraph for refreshingly non-pc reporting.

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I don't recall seeing any of your other articles because I recall you have written to said paper before. When were they published?

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Unfortunately, I don't have direct access to the paper! Maybe you can tell us when you see a story on Polish benefit dependency mentioned

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I don't write the articles! Most weeks there are are one or two stories published in said newspaer about Poles in the UK. Buy it. It's a fun paper.

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My mum buys it out of habit. I never buy it and rarely read it. In fact I don't buy any papers because I think they are all full of nonsense. I know this for a fact because I used to live next door to a famous actor and the press would camp out on the doorstep. They would ring our bell and interrogate us about his whereabouts. The next thing you know there would be something in the paper saying "neighbours have not seen him for months". It did not matter what you actually said to them or what he had in fact been doing. They had a story and would make up complete fiction. It's crap being famous.

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I realise you don't write the articles hans I just thought the fruits of your labours in reporting so officiously may have generated something by the paper that you could boast of.

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So if I am given a newspaper with 40 pages 39 are about local news and important information and 1 article is about 'Poles didn't suffer at all during II WW' you would see it as OK as most of the paper was OK?

Sorry Ania the 10 or so pages encouraging Poles to claim benifit are discusting. 1 day you clain you are against the UK intising Poles to come and the next you think it is a good idea.

I work with a lot of poles and most or them were shocked, then again you are hardly a normal Pole.

Re: Great reading

Dajwid if you feel so strongly I suggest you write to the Federation of Poles or the consulate and ask them to remove the section, giving your reasons.

As you have already said, the leaflet is handed out to Poles who are already in the UK. It is therefore hardly an incentive for those in Poland to come here and claim benefits. As you probably know, Poles may lose their jobs when here in the same way as other workers. Under current rules they are entitled to benefits. If you feel strongly about them being entitled to benefits take it up with your MP or the prime minister.

I am sure the consulate and federation decided to put information in the leaflet so that they don't have to keep answering the same questions on the subjects concerned.

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"So if I am given a newspaper with 40 pages 39 are about local news and important information and 1 article is about 'Poles didn't suffer at all during II WW' you would see it as OK as most of the paper was OK?"

You are comparing apples and pears in this statement.

Re: Great reading

"1 day you clain you are against the UK intising Poles to come and the next you think it is a good idea."

I am indeed against this. If they do come over here however, I do not want them to be sleeping on the streets because they haven't a clue what to do. I'm a taxpayer Dajwid and I don't want to see my taxes wasted either. However, I also think the government is responsible for this situation not the Poles. If people come over here because government policy has said they can then said government should sort out problems caused by said policy.

Re: Great reading

I am indeed against this. If they do come over here however, I do not want them to be sleeping on the streets because they haven't a clue what to do. I'm a taxpayer Dajwid and I don't want to see my taxes wasted either. However, I also think the government is responsible for this situation not the Poles. If people come over here because government policy has said they can then said government should sort out problems caused by said policy.

The same should surely apply to romanians in Poland but it doesn't. In fact in Poland a non Pole has no rights to anything according to Pomorski councils.

As for comparing Apples to Pears, both grow on trees, both ore fruits, both are sweet....... Not sure what you are getting at. a publication does not automaticly become OK if most of it is OK. I have written to a number of places regarding the brochure I just feel as this is a Polish furum it is of great interest too.

Re: Great reading

" If you feel strongly about them being entitled to benefits take it up with your MP or the prime minister."

He is already bringing the matter to a wider audience by discussing it here. That's the whole point of voicing an opinion.

Re: Great reading

"I also think the government is responsible for this situation not the Poles"

Let's be honest. Nobody wants these parasites claiming UK benefits. My message: go back to Poland and sponge.

The same goes for Romanians, Slovaks, Turks, Pakistanis, Africans, in fact, any welfare claimant not born here.

Re: Great reading

Clearly, moving to any country to claim benefits is wrong.

Re: Great reading

Neil the post states that the leaflet is not handed out in Poland but at the Polish consulate in the UK. It answers the non consular questions they get bombarded with about life in the UK.

Re: Great reading

http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/Customers/Workingortrainingineurope/Dev_009856.xml.html

The above jobcentre plus website is part of the UK's department of work and pensions. The link above gives you information similar to the leaflet debated above. The information relates to living and working in Poland. Below is an extract on Uk nationals claiming benefits when living in Poland.:

"Social Security
Your social security rights in Poland are the same as those that apply elsewhere within the EEA. When you start work in Poland, you will contribute to the Polish social security system and consequently, gain the right to benefits.

The Polish social security scheme is coordinated by the Social Insurance Fund (Fundusz Ubezpieczen Spolecznych) and comprises retirement insurance, pension insurance, sickness and maternity insurance as well as occupational accident and occupational illness insurance. In addition to the social security scheme, a family payments scheme exists offering family benefits as well as an unemployment benefit scheme financed from a separate Labour Fund (Fundusz Pracy).

Transferring Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
If you are entitled to the contributory part of JSA and have normally been claiming this for at least four weeks in the UK, you may continue to receive it for up to three months in Poland, while you actively seek work there. You must first tell your Jobcentre Plus office or Jobcentre in the UK (where you are registered) of your intention to look for work in Poland well in advance of your departure date. Your Jobcentre Plus office or Jobcentre will advise the DWP Pensions and Overseas Benefits Directorate who will determine whether conditions are satisfied and send you form E303 before you leave. This form, which secures the payment of your unemployment benefit in Poland, should be taken to the Polish employment service as soon as possible after your arrival in Poland. General information on the transfer of JSA abroad is available from your local Jobcentre or Jobcentre Plus office in the form of a brochure (JSAL 22). For more details contact:

Centre for Non-Residents
Room BP 1301
Benton Park View
Newcastle Upon Tyne
NE98 1ZZ
Tel: 0845 915 4811
Fax: 0845 915 7800

Pensions
Under EEA regulations, if you work in two or more EEA countries you can combine state pension contributions paid in each state in order to qualify for a state pension. For more information contact the Centre for Non-Residents at the above address."

Re: Great reading

Ania!

What absolute nonsense!!

The British do not go to Poland to claim benefits!!!

100,000+ Poles have, however, moved to the UK and ARE claiming benefits.

Re: Great reading

Hans.

We were not debating whether or not the british go to Poland to claim benefits. Neither were we debating whether the Poles come to the UK to claim benefits.

We were debating whether it is correct to place information about welfare and benefits in an information leaflet which is available to Poles when they visit the Polish consulate in the UK.

I have merely pointed out that the UK's department for work and pensions publishes exactly the same information as the Polish leaflet(available in the UK) for British nationals who wish to go to live and work in Poland. Such information is available BEFORE they leave britain.

Re: Great reading

As is the information Dajwid cites!

The Polish language guide to claiming UK benefits is published on the internet :-)

BTW - I like most taxpayers loathe all welfare scroungers. No matter where they come from.

Re: Great reading

"We were not debating whether or not the british go to Poland to claim benefits. Neither were we debating whether the Poles come to the UK to claim benefits. "

Well clearly the British don't go to Poland to claim Polish benefits. Poles, however, do go to the UK with the express intention of claiming benefits. Read virtually any Polish newspaper to find out how to do it.

Poles are also doing the same in Ireland.

Re: Great reading

"Any encouragement to welfare dependency among immigrants should be discouraged."

Above is 100% true.

Question - is there not European version of the ‘American Dream” whereas people are encouraged to work hard, take risks, etc. instead of looking for handouts?

In my experience, most Europeans look down upon those who take money seriously.

That hand-out culture must have something to do with that socialist mentality.

Re: Great reading

"That hand-out culture must have something to do with that socialist mentality. "

Speaking personally, I see this as the main reason for the Polish eagerness to take move to the UK and handouts from another country's welfare system. Money which they patently have done nothing to deserve. This eagerness to claim welfare effects not just those who lived through socialism, but their children, as well.

The same goes for many East Germans who are content to sit on the asses and live on welfare.

My solution to welfare dependency wherever it may be and whoever is involved: bring back work camps and work houses.

Re: Great reading

If any immigrant moves to the UK, Ireland, Germany or anywhere else and claims any form of welfare benefit, he should immediately be deported and never allowed re-entry into that country.

Re: Great reading

"Question - is there not European version of the ‘American Dream” whereas people are encouraged to work hard, take risks, etc. instead of looking for handouts? "


Yes. I for one, have never claimed a cent of welfare. No-one I personally know and like lives on handouts.

Re: Great reading

Agreed. But at the same time, Europeans in general (not all, I say this as a cultural thing) tend to look down upon the ‘the newly rich’, whereas in the US it is something to be admired.

Maybe that disdain for American-style wealth seeking and independence has something to do with eagerness to look to government for handouts, etc.

I don’t know, I could be wrong.

Re: Great reading

"That hand-out culture must have something to do with that socialist mentality. "

Mike doesn't the european handout culture go back to and the rebuilding of societies post WWII to aid the millions of refugees? The NHS also dates from this era. Prior to WWII any welfare in the UK was provided by voluntary organisations and not government funded. The marshall plan (NB. an american concept) was probably a catalyst for the welfare state. Britain received the most. The whole point of the marshall plan was to prevent communism spreading not encourage it.

Re: Great reading

Mike I think the attitude you refer to probably goes back to western Europe's puritanical roots rather than socialism. For example in the UK ostentatious spending and loadsamoney have long been looked down upon as vulgar. There are puritanical parsimonious roots in some of this thinking. Particularly in the north of England and scotland where quakers, methodists, presbytarians and such would have set the social agenda and culture in the past. Thrift was long ago seen as a virtue and waste as a terrible sin.

Re: Great reading

Marshall Plan had nothing to do with creating welfare states.

Most Europeans believe welfare is ok. That’s one of the reasons why all these newcomers to GB are taking full advantage of it, just as they did with West Germany and France.

In fact, I would be willing to bet (I don’t have these stats, this is just a guess) that at least half of welfare recipients in the England are foreign born.

The problem is that if nothing is done to prevent these people from seeking welfare they will never become economically independent.

Re: Great reading

The Marshall Plan has little or nothing to do with immigrants looking for handouts, rather than working for their money. It happens in Canada and the US, just the same. The majority of blacks in the US, also live on handouts of one sort or another.

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“Mike I think the attitude you refer to probably goes back to western Europe's puritanical roots rather than socialism.”

No. That Calvinist approach you refer to has become embedded in the American, and for the most part, British culture. It has nothing to do with socialism, in fact, the very premise is just the opposite.

Re: Great reading

"Marshall Plan had nothing to do with creating welfare states. "

100% accurate.

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"In fact, I would be willing to bet (I don’t have these stats, this is just a guess) that at least half of welfare recipients in the England are foreign born."

Them all their children. The same is true of most of Western Europe.

Re: Great reading

“The majority of blacks in the US, also live on handouts of one sort or another.”

Or in prison. This is sad.

However, immigrants in the US do not get on welfare (the vast majority anyway).

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all = or!!!

The children of immigrants are often worse in terms of welfare dependency.

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Bottom Line -

Poles in GB should be discouraged from seeking welfare benefits upon arrival, period.

British Poles should work on job placement programs, etc. Ania, that could be a nice little project for you

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“The children of immigrants are often worse in terms of welfare dependency. “

Yep. That’s just a recipe for perpetual poverty.

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Mike welfare dates back to post WWII in the UK and the funding for it would have come from the marshall plan. Therefore it was driven by the marshall plan because the UK was bankrupt post WWII what with neglected business and industry and the lend lease they owed the US and all.

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Welfare state and NHS were promised to the British, well before the Second World War.

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“Mike welfare dates back to post WWII in the UK and the funding for it would have come from the marshall plan.”

100% inaccurate. Sorry Ania.

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Just as Social Security started in the US during the 1930’s. It was the biggest political issue at the time throughout the Western World, including Poland.

Re: Great reading

Besides, this doesn't answer the question: why do Poles flock to the UK and Ireland in search of welfare handouts?

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“why do Poles flock to the UK and Ireland in search of welfare handouts”

They come to the UK in search of a paycheck.

Unfortunately there are those who choose to take advantage of the system.

The answer is that socialist mentality. They think it is ok. And there are those who are scam whatever they can.

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Meant to say “WILL SCAM” above

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"British Poles should work on job placement programs, etc. Ania, that could be a nice little project for you "

Mike the Poles I know and come across all work. Even the woman who is working at my local health club tonight was Polish. If they come to the UK they are looking for work. Poles do not need my help. They are a resourceful bunch.

I know of a lot of Polish romanys who do not work and claim benefits (in fact they come here nwo and in the past specifically to claim), but romanys have their own nation so do not consider themselves Polish. They used to come here as refugees in the 90s until the government put a stop to it. Romany women from all over europe also get housing benefit and then beg on the street or on trains holding babies. Nobody with a child needs to beg in the UK because of the importance placed on child welfare. Therefore these women are true charlatans, firstly for cheating and secondly for trailing the innocent child around in the cold.

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"I know of a lot of Polish romanys"

You mean those gypsy bastards? Sorry if Im not PC, but they sponged off and stole in Poland for years. Ask any cop in PL. Leeches.

I agree Poles are very resourceful and hard working.

Anyone new in a country can use some help Ania :)

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"100% inaccurate. Sorry Ania. "

I meant government funded welfare Mike. Pre WWII it was funded by voluntary organisations and not the state. The NHS certainly could not have been set up without the marshall funding being pumped into the UK.

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romanys - is this the pc term for Gypsy??

Crikey...............

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"Pre WWII it was funded by voluntary organisations and not the state."

Wrong again

It's all good Ania.

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Ania, read some real history books on the welfare state. Forget wikishite.com and such nonsense.

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"Anyone new in a country can use some help Ania :) "

This is why the federation produced the leaflet Mike.

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Mike what about the beveridge report 1942 which is where the welfare state we see in the UK today was masterminded. Any pre war benefits system was pathetic in comparison.

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Still doesn't alter the fact that anyone living off of welfare benefits is the scum of the earth .

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"Forget wikishite.com and such nonsense. "

Hans please don't insult me. I don't bother with wiki crap.

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"Still doesn't alter the fact that anyone living off of welfare benefits is the scum of the earth "

People cheating the system are. I am against spongers just as much as you are.

However, genuine claimants are not scum. People can be made redundant or lose their jobs through no fault of their own. These people might have families to support. People who are suddenly disabled in an accident etc. The welfare state is there to stop people starving on the streets and I am happy to contribute to those in real need. I am also a firm supporter of a free health service.

For the record I have never been unemployed and I have never claimed benefits.

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The problem is a huge number of Poles are disabled 'on paper' these will be translated by legal translaters and used in the UK, cheating the system in the Poland is the norm, so the 'how to guide' is hardly a good idea.

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I think this is the same in the UK.

There is a guy across the road who had an accident a couple of years ago and was temporarily disabled. He applied and has a disabled parking space. He has now recovered but still has the space. I can see him now doing some work on his windows. He has been climbing a ladder. Looks pretty mobile to me.

There is another disabled space up the road. Every day that space has a different car parked with a disabled badge displayed. Someone is playing silly buggers.

In my view both people are cheating.

In my view this is also a fault in the system to allow such loopholes.

While you have loopholes there is a guarantee someone will cheat. They need to apply TQM techniques to the benefit system and work on continuous improvement or nothing will change.

I think Poland needs EU help to sort out fraud and corruption in these types of systems. However, Brussels is doubtless just as corrupt....

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I think, Ania, you are missing the whole point. These Poles are immigrants moving to and claiming money from the UK welfare system. They are being encouraged to do so by Polish media, and tinpot back-room Polish federations. Low-life scum - the whole bunch.

Immigrants claiming welfare are in a totally different situation to a native of any country living on welfare in their own country. If Poles want to live on welfare, do it in Poland, not in the UK.

Re: Great reading

"Immigrants claiming welfare are in a totally different situation to a native of any country living on welfare in their own country."

That's your opinion Angela. I don't make the laws but welfare is there for a reason and it's available to foreign workers for a reason.

You are debating a governmental issue that is off subject and is beyond the control of those on this forum, Poles or any other nationality moving to the UK. The situation in terms of those entitled to benefits is as it is. The structure of welfare in this country is as it is based on what has been decided by Parliament, Brussels etc. It is nothing to do with "these Poles" as you call them. If you don't like it stop blaming the Poles and write to your MP.

Re: Great reading

"Low-life scum - the whole bunch."

You are so full of hate.

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Once again:-

"I think, Ania, you are missing the whole point. These Poles are immigrants moving to and claiming money from the UK welfare system. They are being encouraged to do so by Polish media, and tinpot back-room Polish federations. Low-life scum - the whole bunch.

Immigrants claiming welfare are in a totally different situation to a native of any country living on welfare in their own country. If Poles want to live on welfare, do it in Poland, not in the UK. "

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Lol.

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I hear chamomile tea helps some people relax and feel more at peace with the world.

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The whole point is the POLISH CONSULATE is giving out information HOW TO CLAIM in the UK.

NOT right End of story.

This exactly the type of thing that causes Racism and hate, ALL poles will be tared with the same brush, just as Ania has a hate thing for Lithuanians, many hate Pakastanis as they were seen as scrounging. That would be a shame an most Poles are here to work hard.

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I don't hate anyone Dajwid. I've never said I hate lithuanians.

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But you tend to assume every bad Pole is a Lithuanian.

Remember the charity clothing scam, you blamed them.

pole arrested, you claimed the name was Lithuanian.

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There was a big clothing scam in the UK run by and based in Lithuania Dajwid which I believe I referred to because Poles were being unfairly implicated as instigators. Here is one article about it. I don't know much about lithuania other than what I've come across in papers. I believe I asked people's views on here about crime in lithuania but nobody answered at the time. I have heard that they do not like to hear Polish spoken because they are trying to move away from the commonwealth history and form their own identity. I have made more negative comments about Russia and the current regime there. :

http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/Article389.htm
BOGUS CHARITY CLOTHING COLLECTORS

Cornwall Trading Standards are warning householders to be wary of bogus charity clothing collectors who are pushing flyers through local letter boxes.


The flyers give the misleading impression that the items are being collected for charitable purposes. In reality, the collections seem to be organised by commercial operators who sell the donated items for profit.

“It appears that Lithuanian people are hand delivering these flyers which appeal for donations of unwanted clothes, footwear and sometimes other household and electrical items to be distributed to poor individuals and families in Eastern European or third world countries”, explained Jackie Snow from Cornwall’s Trading Standards Service.

“Householders are asked to leave the goods in a plastic bag by the front door with the flyer attached. These are later collected anonymously.”

It is estimated by the Association of Charity Shops that the potential value of donated clothing and other items ‘lost’ to legitimate charities as a result of these bogus collections amounts to over £1 million per annum. Many genuine charities rely on such doorstep collections for a substantial proportion of their shop sales.

The misleading impression given by the flyers is, in some instances, reinforced by reference to a registration number, which people may think is that of a Registered Charity but is, in fact, a limited company number.

“There are two particular flyers that have been brought to our attention.” said Jackie Snow.

“One has pink writing and a photograph of a crying baby whilst the other has a background of peach coloured clothing and begins: ‘Dear Householder, we urgently need clothing that your family may never wear again.’ “

“The BBC has carried out undercover research into these types of businesses and has gathered evidence on Lithuanian businessmen who are posing as charities to exploit your generosity.”

If a householder has any doubts about a leaflet asking for donations, they can contact the Charity Commission’s helpline on 0870 333 0123 to check whether the collection is for, or on behalf of, a registered charity.

Alternatively, they can give direct to a local charity shop or donate via a charity shop collection sack which will make clear reference to the charity registration number and many will also carry the Association of Charity Shops Kitemark.

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Anyway you have your view on this Dajwid and I have mine. Never the twain shall meet from the look of it. We will have to agree to disagree. Particularly as you don't have any debating logic other than "nie". Dobranoc i spi dobrze kochanie.

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When requiring an emergency operation, my hospital in Warsaw demanded proof of my ZUS payments. Fortunately, we keep all paying in slips, as ZUS would have needed 6 months to reply to any such request.
Please note that Poles don't have to do this in the UK - perhaps they should be forced to from now on.

So, Dajwid - did you ever manage to "transfer" your Polish pension contributions to the UK, or did the Polish state simply stiff you good and proper - in the best tradition of Robert Maxwell?

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"Please note that Poles don't have to do this in the UK - perhaps they should be forced to from now on."

Please note they (Poles) have to do this in Poland. Everyone is obliged to show a valid ZUS payments proof unless he/she preferes to pay for the medical care. This is the problem of comparision of health care systems in both countries not their attitude to foreigners.

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A dig at the UK, not Poland.

Poland is slowly learning that public services are for the public, not public servants. Half of nurses (and teachers) should be sacked for failing to grasp that tricky nuance.

Try again:
Due to UK systems failures, a woman of Polish descent is having to return permanently to the UK to pick up her widow's income, despite the fact her husband paid his national insurance for the whole of his working life.

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“Due to UK systems failures”

Bingo. That seems to be the cause of the problem.

Comparing health care in a former socialist country to that of Britain is pointless.

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Commies are good at keeping records, that is except for the social security agency with its wonderful computerised system which doesn't work, whereas the UK is great at wasting time and money on hopeless causes.
To wit, the leader of the 7/7 bombers was featured on the front page of the Times Educational Supplement (THE teachers' newspaper) as a successful Muslim on a successful scheme to help ethnic minorities. His mother-in-law was nice though - we always got Christmas cards off them.

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Brits in Poland get nothing.
We pay Zus and taxes, but get no help ot all. we go private for
doctors, no office in Poland has ever given me anything in English apart from 'maldunek'
but you have to fill in in Polish.


I paid Zus for 13 years all that money was lost.


 


a Pole comes here they get:


 Free healthcare


The right to vote


Government help finding work


free translation in all government offices


The right to state housing


The right to buy property and land


The right to open a company (without special
40% tax)


Tax credits


Child benefit


Housing benefit


Now the Consul is giving out a free booklet
'how to get it free' Sorry Ania how can any normal UK citizen see that as OK?


 


 


 





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I have to agree that foreigners (even EU citizens) are treated very poorly in Poland, and all immigrants (including Poles) are given far too many handouts in the UK, but, Dajwid, I can't see Ania agreeing with either you or I .

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