Welcome to the original English language Poland and Polish discussion group board. This message forum is a place where English-speaking Poles, foreigners (expats) living in Poland, and anyone with a genuine interest in Poland can discuss and read the views of others concerning Poland. Subjects include: Polish news and current affairs; Life in Poland; politics; genealogy research; Polish culture and history; advice and tips on visiting Poland; Polish property and investment issues. The aim of our group is to increase awareness of wonderful Poland using the English language and allow and foster the honest debate and exchange of opinions on anything vaguely related to Poland and Polish - positive, negative and/or neutral! To state the obvious: all opinions and views expressed on this site are solely those of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of anyone else! Messages consisting of ads will be deleted.
Local authorities and the police should set up far more sobering-up units, impose smoke-free public areas and set up injection clinics in hospitals etc etc.
All this running around trying to enrich criminals is sheer madness. The sole result is that organised crime is getting super rich.
Cigarette smoking is on the way down, alcohol is a problem (as it has been encouraged by govt action and inaction), drugs can be kept under control - if the desire is there.
Then, there's the problem of prostitution which needs to be addressed at the same time. I think western society should not continue to subsidise the crimnal super elite in its current moronic way. Legalise and tax the lot of them - and put them out of town. Everyone would be a winner - including the addicts and prostitutes, without mentioning the residents in districts afflicted by these evil trades.
Yes. It would seem logical. But I don't see it happening.
Prohibition just puts the trade in the hands of criminals (just like alcohol prohibition in Saudi Arabia today and the US a few years ago). Criminals get rich, and substance abuse is unchecked.
It just seems wrong that somebody who uses heroin should have to beg, borrow of steal so much money to buy it from some lowlife when they could get it instead from a shop for a fraction of the price.
And instead of huge profits going to organised crime, there could be some tax revenue to the government to improve society as a whole.
Drug and alcohol rehab programmes are very expensive and places are limited because funding is not available. Not sure what you mean by sobering up units? An alcoholic will just get drunk again and police cells tend to be overnight sobering up units. There are already narcotic substitute programmes for those who want to quit. I guess it depends on whether you think more government funding should be used to treat dying cancer patients or to rehabilitate alcoholics. It's an ethical dilemma. There has of course also been talk of refusing to treat people who make themselves ill due to their lifestyle (overeating, drug abuse etc). Technically such behaviour is a socially acceptable form of slow suicide.
I agree with your point on why drugs should be legalised, but I don't see how you can legalise drugs without creating more social problems. Alcohol is a legal drug and look at all the social problems created by that alone. If you were to legalise narcotics too this would encourage widespread use and potential social meltdown. They should make drugs socially unacceptable (unfashionable). Smoking is becoming anti social for example (compared to wide social acceptance in the 70s). In parts of america drinking to excess is considered extremely anti social. In the UK it seems to be seen as a cool thing to do. Of course unless you have a puritanical revolution or find a way to make everyone happy just to be alive, none of these problems are going away in a hurry.
As far as prostitution is concerned I totally agree. Considering how acceptable sex outside marriage is and the sort of divorce settlements flying around, I don't see how it can still be illegal to take money for sex and it would protect the women who get involved and prove a bonus for the taxman. A controversial topic of course, but it would be a bit like getting rid of backstreet abortions. Legalisation is the better of two evils.
Yes! Legalize hard narcotics, prostitution, and take away our guns. Send the message to our young that it is okay to get high and sleep with hookers…and the society would collapse in a generation or two.
Ania, its nice to see a woman so sexually liberated.
"There are already narcotic substitute programmes for those who want to quit. I guess it depends on whether you think more government funding should be used to treat dying cancer patients or to rehabilitate alcoholics. It's an ethical dilemma."
You cannot compare a cancer patient to some drug addicted degenerate. They all belong in prison or public works - let them build roads or cell towers high in the mountains. That would sober their hippy asses up.
"Drug and alcohol rehab programmes are very expensive and places are limited because funding is not available. "
Collosal waste of tax money. Not government's job to cure degenerates.
"You cannot compare a cancer patient to some drug addicted degenerate. "
That was my point Mike.
I guess I thought Varsovian was discussing the UK due to the spate of recent drug related killings. In the UK funding for drug rehab and cancer treatment all comes from the same taxpayer pot. So the debate goes - how many cancer patients are worth one clean drug addict?
By the way we already have the failing society that you mention, courtesy of the western media's influence. You can blame liberal attitudes but funnily enough it was communist countries that kept family values etc going and now that communism has fallen those countries are becoming just like the rest of the zgnily zachod....
"Collosal waste of tax money. Not government's job to cure degenerates. "
I guess there is a different attitude to this in Europe. Degenerates turn up elsewhere in the system. Either as a drain on resources in prison or hospital or welfare. The theoretically sensible option is to try to turn them into productive members of society and save taxpayer's money long term. Unfortunately such degenerates are usually the product of a wide societal problem which is not so easy to solve. But either way you can ignore them or not, but they don't go away.
"Ania, its nice to see a woman so sexually liberated."
I don't think high minded morals should get in the way of common sense.
" it was communist countries that kept family values etc going and now that communism has fallen those countries are becoming just like the rest of the zgnily zachod"
I'm not sure about that. I think there was a great deal of hypocrisy, alchohol abuse, and domestic violence that went unreported or was simply accepted back in those days. Workers used to get hammered in the middle of the day and no made a big deal out of it cause they were the 'sacred working class'. I actually think there is less alcholism in Poland now. As far as drugs, they were always around, but nothing was reported. Polish militia actually went on a spree burning konopie (industrial hemp) and puppy fields. If you recall, Polish farmers could only cultivate enough puppy field for personal use. So all those issues have been around, they just went unreported.
I personally have zero sympathy for drug addicts. Growing up in Miami I witnessed a ton of it and can honestly say that it's all about choices. No one can make you do anything.
You certainly didn't get graffiti on the street or litter during communist times and all I remember is families with kids going to the park. Kids playing together innocently. Parents telling kids to go to bed when the man said it was not a film for kids and the kids listening to the parents. Oh yes and divorce was rare. No it wasn't a perfect world and people had their own problems. But if I compare it to some of the awful stories of squalor and crime I hear about Poland these days, I can understand why people look back with nostalgia.
Domestic violence and alcohol have been around for centuries in peaceful civilisations. Widespread drug abuse and gang warfare have not (and please don't bring up the dark ages and feudalism - I said peaceful civilisations!). The more you divide a society materially the more complex problems you get emerging from the underclass you create. You can sweep all these people you don't care for under the carpet but they will emerge in other ways. A truly civilised society should look after it's waifs and strays or they will find unsavoury ways to look after themselves.
Poland has strict laws - a kind of zero tolerance. One result of this is that hard drugs, which have their market anywhere are much closer to the surface. There simply isn't the same market for soft drugs and the risks being caught selling them aren't worth it.
If you can get locked up for years for selling marijuana, better to sell something with a higher profit margin. The same attitude prevails anywhere with very rigid laws.
I was offered a new Polish-made narcotic yesterday, which I declined - not least because it sounds dreadful - which is apparently a mix of Crystal Meth, MDMA and brown Heroin. If soft drugs like cannabis were available as easily (a guy in a bar was pushing the filthy stuff, made in Wrocław if the police are reading and care to act) people wouldn't be tempted to use muck like that and there would be no market for the sleaze-bag who was selling it to operate in.
So often I've found needles in the street or been stopped by beggars who are young and emaciated, with strung-out expressions. It's interesting for me where the money ends up.