Welcome to the original English language Poland and Polish discussion group board. This message forum is a place where English-speaking Poles, foreigners (expats) living in Poland, and anyone with a genuine interest in Poland can discuss and read the views of others concerning Poland. Subjects include: Polish news and current affairs; Life in Poland; politics; genealogy research; Polish culture and history; advice and tips on visiting Poland; Polish property and investment issues. The aim of our group is to increase awareness of wonderful Poland using the English language and allow and foster the honest debate and exchange of opinions on anything vaguely related to Poland and Polish - positive, negative and/or neutral! To state the obvious: all opinions and views expressed on this site are solely those of their respective authors and are not necessarily those of anyone else! Messages consisting of ads will be deleted.
Bulgarians and Romanians can't legally work in the UK. So why would they would be competition for Poles who have no problems working legally in the UK?
Those that go back to Poland will mostly be Poles who don't speak English.
oh yes they can legally work here Neil. They need to obtain authorisation by getting a letter from an employer.
"Those that go back to Poland will mostly be Poles who don't speak English"
Ageed and those who can afford to go back and those who have made lots of money and have built nice houses in Poland. I think there will be many of both if the Polish economy picks up.
They need a work permit issued by the Home Office.
Polish migrants do not.
Neil do you not realise how many bulgarians romanians and russians are working here?
They only need to go through the formalities and they have a job. I've no idea how many have permits or not, but the Poles who stayed with me said the hotel they worked at was full of Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian staff. Presumably an agency would make sure they had fulfilled the formalities. All they need to do is ensure a letter from the employer gets accepted by the home office. Not sure how the russians get in but assume they get around the system one way or t'other by having ascension state ID. There are special rules for self employed so maybe that's also an option.
Still I guess when a non Polish speaker hears Bulgarian or Russian they may think it is Polish and not realise how many non Polish east europeans are here.
Much of what I see of manual workers on the tube these days are not speaking Polish but another slavic language. The Poles I see speaking on their mobiles on the tube are usually glamourous women or smart looking businessmen. The builders we had recently (employed by a Polish owned building firm) were lithuanian and Ukrainian. I still see Poles around, but not as many as last year and I do know of Poles who have come here and then returned to Poland for good after working for a few months. It's probably different outside London.
However, as far as London is concerned, I guess I'm a bit closer to the situation on the ground than you.
Why is it that you think that whatever you see in your corner of London is in any way representative of the UK as a whole?
Romanians and Bulgarians cannot work until they are issued with a Home Office work permit. Employers do not issue them. The Home Office do.
"Why is it that you think that whatever you see in your corner of London is in any way representative of the UK as a whole?"
Because London has the largest Polish population in the UK and is therefore reasonably representative of what is happening elsewhere.
I had a Bulgarian temp working for me officially through an agency back in 2006/07 - not quite sure how she got around the regs but she had an official work permit so can't be that difficult if you go down official routes (as stats below show given thousands registered). The hotel agency I referred to is run by Romanians and has many romanian staff. Romanians & bulgarians have been able to officially work in the UK since last year (with the restrictions such as requiring letter from employer to be registered with home office).
"Because London has the largest Polish population in the UK and is therefore reasonably representative of what is happening elsewhere. "
I lived in the UK for several years and own property there even now.
I don't think that London is representative of anywhere in Britain. Are there any British living there at all??? I certainly didn't see many white faces on my last visit
London is an immigrant city.
Places like Gloucester, Hampshire and Dorset are what I consider to be English.
I think B&G need work permits, just like Pakistanis and Africans do to work LEGALLY in England.
You're entirely missing the point Hans nowt to do with london being representative of english population in the UK......
You come closest to the point in this statement :
"London is an immigrant city."
Expanding on this, therefore it is highly representative of immigrant populations in the UK. As it has by far the highest concentration of Poles in the UK it is highly representative of Polish populations in the UK in general, other than you get more professional Poles working in London and increased manual labourers working outside.
If you read the attached link you will see that thousands of bulg & romanians have obtained permits....I'd say official stats stating that 10,000 permits issued in just the first half of 2007 is quite a material amount when projected to date. Those are as you say the figures of those who work "legally". The illegal count is likely to be much higher. There must also be plenty of ukrainians and russians working illegally as I doubt anyone from the home is checking building sites to see who is legal and who is not....
relevant extract from the link above :
"Between April and June of this year, 3,990 Bulgarian and Romanian nationals were granted access to the labor market, down 21 percent from the 5,075 that were granted access in the first quarter of 2007.
The figures included those registered as self-employed and self-sufficient. An additional 3,980 were issued permits for the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme (SAWS)."
London has the largest Polish population in the UK.
Slough, Peterborough, Bristol, Brighton, Colchester????
Huge Polish comunites. Romanians cannot work in the UK without work permits, we turn many away every week.
Poles who are 'village idiots' with no education are leaving, they don't really fit into society in Polish towns so struggle here. They return to Poland, Poles with half a brain stay, many buy property in Poland and rent it out, often the income goes to family back home.
London is no more a good example of the UK as Warsaw is of Poland, I remember a certain American Pole that disapeared from the forum, had seen Warsaw and thought he knew everything about Poland.
I agree than most brits hear a slavic language and think it Polish, but chances are 99% they are right.
"London is no more a good example of the UK as Warsaw is of Poland"
As it has the largest contingent of brits working there, Warsaw is probably the most representative of the english community in Poland. In the same way London is most representative of the Polish community in the UK. Poles usually arrive in London so you get all those who pass through here too usually staying a night or two when they get here. The Midlands prob have the second largest settlement.
Anyway many Poles are leaving for various reasons and Romanians and Bulgarians are taking the jobs - legally or not (I didn't say they don't need a permit, but who is checking?). It will be a gradual thing and many Poles will stay particularly those who have married someone non Polish while here. But the mass influx seems to be abating in favour of other nationalities. There will probably be a fair bit of coming and going for quite a while. But I'd say in five years time you won't see the levels of Poles we see today. Unless that is British companies carry on enticing them here......I predict a huge drive to recruit Polish builders and engineers from Poland for the Olympic work. I know that there is a shortage of skills in the London industry, particularly engineering.
"As it has the largest contingent of brits working there, Warsaw is probably the most representative of the english community in Poland."
"London is no more a good example of the UK as Warsaw is of Poland"