I also agree with Licensing for Medical Assistants
It will give us more respect as a medical professional
I teach at Everest college and want great rewards for those students. our program is on Module basis
approx. 9 months in length with clinical externships
I myself, am a Male Medical Assistant Instructor and Love what I do. Many of our students have great success stories as an Instructor the only thing left
is Licensing for these folks.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: RMA AHI Cpht CNT

In my humble opinion……I am not all together sure that the amount of time one spends in school makes a better or worse MA. When and where I went to school I went for 2 years, one year front, one year back and that didn’t include my externship (one for front and one for back)…..If you where a patient would that make you feel more comfortable? Would you feel more secure letting me give your child a shot?

I went to school almost 25 years ago….How relevant is what I learned then to a medical practice now? As an MA are you really and truly aware of what all the side effects for every medication you could possibly be asked to give, could (or should) you off the cuff answer a patients questions about their medications and treatment?

When I went to school to become a paramedic it was only 52 weeks, 8 hours a week…we learned a lot of the same things that MA’s learn, and a lot of things that MA’s don’t. How do you feel knowing that the a person can do cardio version, pericardiocentisis, and push morphine IV only has 200 hrs of class room training? Would it make you feel better that I had 200hr of field work also? You can only learn so much from the book. I can read 30 pages on how to take a pulse, but taking 30 pulses will teach me more.

As for what a patient thinks coming in to an office – and once again this is just my opinion.. When I room a patient, or talk to a patient on the phone unless they have a background in the medical field, they think you are a nurse – if you have read any of my other posts, this is a huge pet peeve of mine – I’M NOT A NURSE . In 20 some years of working in the medical field I have never had anyone ever question me about my training before I gave their baby shots. I agree that patients should be more aware – but I don’t think they are.

I think that it is important to get a good base of knowledge, in whatever field you choose, to be passionate about it, be curious, ask questions and take each and every chance to get more knowledge. Medications, techniques, treatment and equipment change everyday. The basics of good vitals monitoring, sterile technique, injection and venipucture, hand washing, professionalism, and medical terminology are what you need to get started but to succeed as a Medical Assistant you have learn to be an extension of the Dr. you work under, and to know as much as you can about the area you are in. I really don’t care if the MA at the Derm office knows anything about childhood immunizations, but I do what her to be knowable enough about Kenolog injection to know that if it doesn’t go deep IM that I will get a dimple in my butt. Knowledge is power, and it is what the person absorbs from the school, not so much the school itself. I have known very excellent Dr.’s who got their degrees in shifty third rate schools, as well as quacks that I wouldn’t let touch my dog who have been awarded accolades from Harvard. If your a low C student, who doesn’t crack your books but can get by, your still an MA at the end of the program, good school or bad and you’ll still be a substandard MA.

IMHO,
Chil

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.A

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Chil,
To answer your question, no I wouldn't care if the ma knew how to give a childhood immunization in a child if I went to see my dermatologit, but I would be concerned if the ma who was giving me a shot of kenalog in my butt and hit my siatic nerve because they didn't know what they were doing.
Giving a patient the wrong mediation can kill them...I have seen ma's draw up 3cc Epi instead of .3 because they don't know what epi can do, what it is for, interventions, etc? Epi is a common medication given in doctors offices for anaphlaytic reactions. Since most doctors offices are run completey by ma's, and there is no licensed nurse on staff, who is ensuring that the correct dosage is drawn up?.. yes, it should be the doctor buy most doctors assume that the ma's know what they are doing and know what the medicaiton is for. Had I not stopped the ma from giving that patient 3cc of epi the ma would have killed the patient.
When I became supervisor a couple of months ago, I took on the challenge of working with new grad ma's. The first thing I did was take each ma into the medicine room privately and have them tell me what each injectable medication that we have in our office is used for, side effects, dosages etc. none of them had a clue what they were giving..they just thought it was cool that they could give injections. I made each one get the nursing drug book and look up the medications, side effects, etc and tell me.. I want to have the best ma's working in our clinic. I want them to be able to think about what med is being ordered and question the doctor if they believe the dosage is wrong. I don't want ma's that just do what they are told....I want them to be able to have those so important critical thinking skills....How do you get critical thinking skills...education!! I want them to know more then how to do something...I want them to know the "why" behind the "how"..you get the 'how to do something" from on the job training" ...they get the "why you do it" from education/school.
I want my ma's to have an opportunity to become a "boss/office manager" in their career..this is the next step for ma's...how do they get there...by education.
Remember the old saying:
"he who knows how will always have a job"
BUT "he who knows why will always be their boss"...
education is the key.
l.lopez lpn

Your Professional Title/Credentials: lpn

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Well there you have it Lori, you just proved my point. You as a manager assure that the people who work at your office know the drugs you use at your office. You don't rely on them knowing every detail when they leave school. If as a manager you assumed that they knew everything, that would be substandard.



And yes if your good at your job you will advance and be given more responsibilty, and even responsibilty of others. Your outlook as you embark on your journey to mentor these new MA's is wonderful, and you really seem to have a commitment to quility. I'm sure you will also continue to get more training and education to keep upto date with issues that are important to your practice - your doctors.

I'm glad we agree

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.A

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Chil, the problem that arises is that all offices are not created equal. there are many offices where the office manager is the doctors wife and she may have no medical background, there is no licensed nurse and the dr assumes the ma knows what they are doing regarding medications. I believe in certain types offices that licensed nurses are not needed, IF there are educated ma's on staff. Remember in school you had "theory aka book work" and "clinicals aka hands approach". Both of these skills are needed in the ma...you can't have one without the other. It seems to me that we are trying to shorten the 'theory' class and jump straight to the "clinical" aspect of being an ma. ..that makes for one stupid and dangerous ma. like I said before, you can train a monkey to give a shot, but you need a certain amount of intelligence to know what you are giving, why you are giving it, etc etc. We cannot assume that when a new grad ma gets a job that the doctor or licnesed nurse will be watching when the ma draws up a medication. Most offices don't have licensed nurses and I have never seen a doctor follow a ma around to see if she is drawing up the correct dosage. Yes, I trained my ma's to know about the medication they are about to give a pt, but believe most offices do not do this...most assume the ma had this in school. I have seen dangergous errors by ma's with medications...I had to stop a ma from giving a patient 3cc of epi!!! it should have been .3cc...this ma would have killed this pt....which goes back to what I taught my ma's if you don't know what it is, then don't stick in in the patients body...get the nurses drug book and look it up the med, dosage, usage, interactions etc. ....do they not teach ma's anymore about how to use the drug guides and to look up the meds before giving it? Since more and more schools are cutting the length of the ma program, we can except to see large variations in the knowledge that ma's possess. If they are cutting the length of the class, then something that was once taught because it was believed to be valuable information is now put to the side. There is to much emphasis on 'clinical/hands on skills' for ma's and not enough on the education/theory skils. This makes me wonder if we are 'dumbing down' the ma program. I think licensure for ma's is the only way to prevent this from continuing. l.lopez lpn

Your Professional Title/Credentials: lpn

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

"This makes me wonder if we are 'dumbing down' the ma program. I think licensure for ma's is the only way to prevent this from continuing"………posted by Lori


So, What I am hearing you say is - the only way to prevent errors the licensure and going though a certain program? Because people with a license never make mistakes and people with posh training do not make mistakes either? You are also undauntedly certain that had your employee actually given that shot (which could easily have happened) the patient would have died, there would have been no possibility for any other outcome. I am also hearing that because of the above facts that you believe that Teach is putting out substandard MA's, and degrading MA's as a whole?

Lori, your views are interesting. However I think you reaction is harsh and short sighted. I think as a community we could be more proactive by encouraging TEACH to continue to take pride in what she is doing in the program she is working in.

I applaud the fact the program that Teach is working with has both state and community college accreditation. 1 semester may seem short, but Teach did mention that front office was another semester, which is a full year of school. Teach also mentioned that most of her students are high school students so many of the English, math, and computer science classes have probably been covered. I also believe that the students still going to class 3 hours a week during the internship is a wonderful idea. This allows the students the see the real world and come back with relevant questions. Being able to walk out of high school with your MA – that would be great!!!!! I’m sure having a job that pays $11.00 an hour right out of HS helps many of these students afford college. I think that programs like the one Teach works with should be encouraged. She did mentioned it is a public program though the public schools for 18yr seniors – this is how I like to see my tax dollars at work. As Tracy said, I wish I could have gotten college credit in HS.

Many well known universities offer nursing degrees online in 9 months, when you graduate you pass your boards and have a state blessing just like everyone else. So if they only go to school for 9 month but they can be an RN and be trusted be cause they have to be a license to be an RN how does this fit into your regulation theory? In my opinion it not the dog in fight, it’s the fight in the dog, but that’s just one dog’s opinion.

Teach, thanks for letting us know about your program, it sounds great. How do the HS kids qualify? How is the program funded though the HS. Are there special qualifications for the non high school students who attend? Do your student belong to HOSA, it is like DECA or FFA but for high school and college student who are interested in health care careers? Are there a lot of programs like yours in California? Does any one else know about this kind of programs in their state?

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.A

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Check out this website: http://www.carocp.org/
This will give info about all the different Regional Occupatioanl Programs available in California. We are State-funded- paid for by ADA (average daily attendance) just like any other public school. HOSA is the organization that the HS students can join. We participate in community activities such as the State wide disaster drills. The students are the actors and what an incredible opportunity for all. The learning experieice is awesome.
Since ROP is a HS program, we fill up the remaining slots with adults. I found that students under 18 do not benefit from the program because they are unable to draw blood or give injections. It is so cool to see the adults and HS students work together. Can you tell how much I love my job??
I did teach at one of the $$$$ private colleges earlier in my career. I didn't know about ROP. The students were in class for 8 months, then we sent them away- to their externships, never to return to school.
I like the way ROP has training throughout the program- we share so many good and bad situations- talk about what they see in "real" life. For example.. "I never saw the MA wash her hands, should I say something" That leads us back into infection control again and again.

The example Lori gave with the Epi is classic. We use the different syringes and discuss and draw up. We use the PDR. I have former students come back as my assistants- they really help.

They have a strict dress code, I do random inspections, I show up at their job sites and check their training plans- and I will pull them from a site if the supervisor isn't doing the training.

A teacher has to have the passion to share and care not only today, but the rest of their life. Nothing makes me feel better than going to a job site and see a former student working.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: RMA- Regional Occupational Program- Clinical Medical Assisting Instructor

Are You Working? Yes

Teach, I am glad to hear you have a passion for teaching and are following up on your students at their clinicals.

Chil,
I would like to say those adds that you have seen are misleading...you cannont get a nursing degree online in 9 months...let me explain why.

First: each state has a 'board of nursing' which has the 'approved' list of nursing schools you must attend in order to be elgible to take the nclex (licensure exam)
Second: you must meet the specific requirements for the state board of nursing. for example here in Georgia a practical nurse student must have 700 hours theory and 700 hours of clinicals from an 'approved' school
Third: you have to pass the nclex in order to get licensed.
Forth: you also have to pass a background check in order to sit for your licensure.
You cannot get 'clinicals' from an online school...I bet that the add you saw was not for nursing but for medical assisting. Now there are some accredited online schools that will allow a rn to get an advanced degree in nursing like a bachelors or masters from schools like phoenix and excelsior. The reason that an rn can get an advanced degree online is because they are already a licensed nurse..they don't have to repeat their clinicals. There is one accredited school online that will allow a lpn to rn and that is Excelsior college, but there are NO schools online to become a lpn. Check with your state board of nursing for confirmation in what I just stated.

Ok, I also found some information that I believe may help you understand why I think licensure is important for ma's.

This information is from the "National Counsil of State Boards of Nursing" ....I believe it applies to medical assistants as well as nurses..
please read below:

http://www.ncsbn.org/regulation/index.asp

Nursing regulation is the governmental oversight provided for nursing practice in each state. Nursing is regulated because it is one of the health professions that pose risk of harm to the public if practiced by someone who is unprepared and incompetent. The public may not have sufficient information and experience to identify an unqualified health care provider, and is vulnerable to unsafe and incompetent practitioners.
Through regulatory processes, the government permits only individuals who meet predetermined qualifications to practice nursing. The board of nursing is the authorized state entity with the legal authority to regulate nursing. Legislatures enact the Nurse Practice Act for a state. The Nurse Practice Act

The above quote is what I have been saying all along...a license ensures that the student has at least met the minimum safety requirements..if you can't pass, you cant practice.
I think that a state governing agency that regulates licensure for ma's is something that should be established in every state...it would weed out the incompotent ma's and give the professinal recognition to the ma's that have worked hard for it.

I would like to know what others think.
l.lopez lpn

Your Professional Title/Credentials: lpn

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Teach,
I checked out the website - wow, so I checked in to our local school district and we have a program. Nothing like yours, students can take a group of electives (medical term, bio, health science classes where they learn cpr, first aid, OSHA requirements, basic office skill and such) to get a HS diploma with a health science focus. They do have the students to find employment in health related areas, from what I understand they usually end up doing courier and specimen sorting for the labs. I'm going to interview a couple of them front office and medical records (faxing and filing). Thank you once again for opening my eyes to the resources of vocational training.

Lori,
I checked out the website. I think you have to be very careful when you decide you want the government to regulate something. This opinion isn’t arbitrary ask any one who went thought the paramedic national registry and licensing a few years ago - just because they regulate you doesn't mean it going to be done by people who know anything about the subject.

A prime example of this is the “no child left behind”. States have to prove that the students know certain skills, so instead of getting a well rounded education, teachers “teach to the test” and the children are be taught how prepare for and take tests. How about school lunches, the government regulates those and what they serve children is really notorious, safe and healthy? and what about the “Government Certified” levy’s in New Orleans, oh and FEMA? That is government regulation at work.

I noticed on the National Council of State Boards of Nursing, who provide governmental oversight, offers access to employers (for a fee) and the nurse (who pays for the test, and licensing) them self, not much help to the general public.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.A., EMT-P, MSNE,

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Chil,
The reasoning for licensure is to make sure that the person has the minimum safety knowledge of their field as not to be a hazard to the public. We have to pass a driving test in order to get a license..true it does not determine who will be a good driver, but it does mean that the person has knowledge as to what the road signs & signals mean on the road and has a basic understanding of the laws..thereby decreasing the potential for accidents.

The reason I believe that ma's should have a licensure is because there is no national standardized program for ma's..Heck, if I wanted to I could open my on school, charge what I wanted, teach what I wanted and send the students out into the world as 'medical assitants. There is to much discrepancy in the programs to ensure that all ma's have been taught the same material. Certification and Registration are not required by all employeers.

I know ma's that went to community colleges and took college level a&p, english comp etc and received associate degrees, and I also know ma's that went to 'diploma mill' schools...The only way to truly
determine if they know what they are supposed to know and required to know is to test them..If they can't pass, they can't practice.

Licensure would also expose the shady ma schools. When a nurse starts researching into the school she wants to go to, one of the things they look at is the pass/fail rate for licensure. You can determine how good a program/instructors are by looking at the percetange of nurses who passed the 'nclex' at their first attempt. If the school has a poor success rate at having nursing students pass the nclex, then you can pretty much determine that something is wrong with the program, the opposite is true for schools with high success rates...remember licensure is to ensure the person has met the minimum safety requirements, so if a school cannot produce nurses that can pass the test, then there is some wrong with the school/nurse program..would you want a nurse who cannot meet the minimum safety requirements taking care of you? renember we are talking about adults here and not children..Adults learn differenly then children..We decide and choose what we want to learn.Adults want relevant knowledge and to be rewarded for learning (usually to get a raise, promotion, skill, etc),so the no child left behind does not apply here.


All of what I just stated in the above paragraph could be applied to ma schools. I really do think it would benefit ma's. Yes, they would have to pay for a licensure, but don't ma's have to pay to take a 'certification' when they graduate? Why not have a license instead of certification? I know that there is more then one 'certification' company out there, so just because a ma calls themselves a cma, does not mean that they got it through the aama. I found this out by some externs who called themselves cma's and had certifcations from a company that their school had choosen, yes it was a mom and pop scam school, the students had never even heard of the aama.
So by getting licensure from the state you know that every ma has a legitimate license.


I also saw in the sunday paper here in atlanta, that there is a new medical assistant school and it stated...no high school diploma or ged needed..My concerns are real about what is happening to the ma profession. It is scary to think that there will be ma's who may only have a 5th grade education and may be responsible for injecting medication into someone.
Licensure would at least if nothing else weed out those who do not have the knowledge that is required to be a safe ma.

l.lopez lpn

Your Professional Title/Credentials: lpn

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

I think the license is a brilliant idea and would certainly help to weed out schools that prey on students. I do know that the Nurse's union out here is NOT in favor of this.. Everything is so political.

BTW- my spelling has become atrocious since the advent of spellcheck- I can assure you that I am not like this in real life. LOL (:

I'd love to meet both of you, we'd have some very spirited conversations and probably a lot of laughs.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: RMA- Regional Occupational Program- Clinical Medical Assisting Instructor

Are You Working? Yes

My thoughts exactlly! I think I could learn alot from both of you, and of course you know that research has shown that spirted debate helps keep the mind young, and wards off the depression of becoming elderly.

That is very interesting about the nursing union!

I don't know about your state but a lot of what is "turned out" as a high school graduate is frighting. I can't even imagine how one would get someone though MA school who couldn't get though HS, just the reading required would be difficult. I think that education standard has really gone down in alot of areas, not just MA school.

Chil

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.A., EMT-P, MSNE,

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

I wonder why the nursing union would be against ma's having a license? I also know that the aama has also lobbied against ma's getting a license.

The aama dosne't want ma's getting a license because they would lose control not to mention all the money they make from certification, membership dues, continuing education etc.

Did the nursing union say why they don't want ma's to have a license? Do they understand that a licensed ma would have a scope of practice as an ma and not a nurse? maybe they are confusing the two.

l.lopez lpn

Your Professional Title/Credentials: lpn

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Teach & Chill,

Teach I believe you said you are from the great state of California. I think Ca is a very progressive state for ma's. I do not know of any other state that actually has a government sanction scope of practice for ma's. Everything usually starts in Ca and the rest of the US will eventually follow.
Chil, where are you from?
I live in metro Atlanta aka Hotlanta. There is no scope of practice from the state, so it can be very confusing to know what ma's can and cannot do legally.

Lorianne

Your Professional Title/Credentials: lpn

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

*FYI *

Maryland has laws governing the scope of MA's. I think if you go to the AMT website you may be able to find it there. In Maryland MA's can even start IV's, DC them and push IV meds (with a MD in the room). We can also inject IV contrast.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA, DT, CNA

Are You Still In School? yes

Are You Working? yes

I'm in AZ, the super red part on the weather map right now

We are one of the states where "things" are pretty laid out. Enforcement of the code - that's a different story.


ARIZONA ADMINISTRATIVE CODE
TITLE 4. PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS
CHAPTER 16. ALLOPATHIC BOARD OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS
ARTICLE 3 . MEDICAL ASSISTANTS

our state board regs
http://www.azmdboard.org/Regulatory/MA/303.htm

These or the requirments that a school must meet for it's MA's to work in AZ. This also has the stardard of what MA's can do in at (plus the add list in the 303 regs above.
http://www.caahep.org/documents/MA%20Standards.pdf

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.A., EMT-P, MSNE,

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

Well, I think the thing here is that MAs do not even need to be formally trained - anyone can walk in off the street and get OJT as an MA and make a pretty good one at that.

I taught at one "private" MA school that was ABHES certified and the tuition was about $7,000 dollars. Students attened 4 hours per day, 5 days a week and complete around 700 odd hours of instrucion, plus a 80-hour internship. I am attempting to secure employment as an MA instructor in one of my states "career technology centers" that is CAAHEP certified, 9 months long, 6 hours per day, with a 200 hour internship. Tuition is less than $1000 dollars. Students will be qualified to sit for the AMT or AAMT exam.

Conversely, I taught in another "career tech center" where the clinical medical assisting class was only 48 hours long. You heard me right - only 48 contact hours total. Now you try to teach all a clinical assistant needs to know in 48 hours - nearly impossible - people left this class poorly trained. I tried to meet with the education director on several occasions, but never got anywhere with beefing up the "program." Now in addition to taking the 48-hour clinical class, it was "recommended" (notice I said here recommended, not "required") that the student take 48 hours of administrative assisting, 48 hours of phlebotomy, 36 hours of ICD-9 coding, 8 hours of CPR, 24 hours of med term and a 90 hour internship (which was not even set up through the school - so why was it listed in the catalog). Most students would take the phlebotomy course, but no one EVER enrolled in the administrative class and to my knowledge, none of them ever took the CPR class.

Now students who "completed" all these courses were not eligible to sit for any of the cert exams by AAMA,AMT, and not even by AAMP (the lowest of the bunch). Although I tried my best as an instructor and had some good students, I finally resigned this job because I felt this was certainly no worthy "MA program." I currently am going through an interview to hire as an instructor in a CAAHEP-accredited 900 hour MA program.

However, I do believe that it is possible for some good training to come out of a one-semester class.

Read some of the posts concerning certification for more info.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: BSE; RMA(AMT)

Are You Still In School? no

Lori, you are beahving like a snob, to say that someone is "substandard" when you are new to any field you are substandard, no MA can walk on the job and know exactly what to do, everyone must be trained in some sort of way, also, MAs are amost always employed with a nurse on staff, and hardly ever deal with medications that can be really dangerous,I think you are trying to big up MAs to be more than they are. I have seen plenty of people get trained on the job to be an MA and let's face it MAs will NEVER be licensed or cosidered " Nurse Techs" so let's give TEACH a break, I'm sure if her students get hired,and can maintain employment, without "killikg" anybody she must be doing something right -SHEESH-

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? yes

my intership was interupted and was un able to complete the internship can i find my own with out being in a school the coures were completed but i have 8 weeks left and need to know if i can complete it on my own or do i need the school to take the exam

Are You Still In School? no my intership was interupted.

I'm curious about how to find an employer that starts off with a good pay rate.Let's face it I'm trying to the pay I deserve without having to get started off with $7-$8.00 an hr.Do you have any suggestions?

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA student

Are You Still In School? yes

Are You Working? no

I'm hoping you can help. I can't find where to get CEU's for medical assisting and my 5 years is up in December. I'm running out of time. Would you happen to have any information? Thanks!
Laurie from Ohio

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

My school ADVERTISES it only takes 9 months but it's actually 10 months worth of classes and a month and a half or 180 hrs (however fast you can get it done) of externship. 10 months barely seems like we've scratched the service ESP in the lab setting- we have so much to learn that tomorrow is my last day in my phlebotomy lab and I'm NOT going to get everything done because there just wasnt enough time.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA

Are You Still In School? yes

Are You Working? yes

uh that would be surface not service... lol and we learn medical terminology in every single class thru-out the entire time that we're here. As well as ICD/coding (limited only as we are NOT ICBS specialists)

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA

Are You Still In School? yes

Are You Working? yes

I think you made several good points in your dialogue.
I graduauted from a medical assisting program in 2005 and was then 49 years old. My externship was in a physical rehabilitation clinic - I didn't check b/p's or give injections; however, I did instruct pool therapy classes and ran the front desk - all important tasks. I have also worked in mental health as a tech, quite interesting. I'm currently employed by the military as a nursing assistant in a hospital based clinic. So education is essential, but it is also important to be flexible and open to change. If you are a veteran of the military it is also a positive factor in one's ability to find work.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Nursing Assistant/MA

Are You Still In School? No - graduated

Are You Working? Yes

I thought Lori's reply to Teach's message was very unkind "What kind of school trains MAs in one semester"

I have been teaching MA's for over 12 years. I just recently QUIT my job after 10 months at the newest school opening in Oklahoma City - ATI Career Training Center.

The course curriculum is very good and it takes 10 months (includes 200 hours of internship) but the tuition cost is $16,000. This is highway robbery!!!

This school allows ANYONE in who can come up with the tuition money. Some of these students just don't belong in medical assisting.

Oklahoma, LIKE ALL STATES, does not require certification OR any formal training to be a medical assistant. You can walk in off the street and get hired.

In this 10-month "program", we also have some graduates who cannot take a BP and do a coherent Hx or draw blood. But they do graduate anyway. How? The school is so money-oriented, that academic requirements have been placed so low, it is almost a guarantee that one will graduate if they only show up about 50% of the time. ATI cares way more about the money it can make than turning out good MAs. Sadly, this is the case for most of these "private" vocational schools. I have taught in 4 of them now and they are all the same.

I also taught in a short term program that consisted of around 230 hours and I turned out some REALLY GOOD assistants in this short term. The student makes the program.

If a person really desires to be an MA, they can get OJT. Some formal education is better than none.

If a person is going to spend 10 months and $16,000, they might as well skip MA school and become an LPN.
Why don't they do this? At ATI, about 99.9% of the students would not be eligible for LPN school. They have no high school diploma, not even a GED. A lot of them have prior misdemeanors, felony convictions and jail time. These type of schools are all that's left for them. Some of a real desire, about half are just there because welfare is threatening to cut them off if they don't get some type of job training.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: RMA (AMT)

Are You Working? yes

Suzanne,

I was just curious how you became an MA instrutor? I have been thinking about attending an MA program and gain some field experience, and later on become an instrutor. What is an average salary for MA instrutor?
I also read on one of the post, you mention that MA are really in high demand, why is that everyone is complaining about the profession. What is an acceptable wage for an MA? If I was fresh out of school as an MA, I would probably seek to get at least 15.00. Another question, what is the difference between an MA I and MA II. I've seen some job posting seeking an MA II.

Sorry for asking too many questions at once. I've been reading all these posts on this forum and others such as indeed.com, and people have such negativity towards this profession.

Thanks for answering my questions.

thanks for the info. where do u teach? I plan on enrolling this spring at evans community adult school for medical assistant training. I heard many things about private schools- some say theyy are better. I will give this adult school a shot. I want a good education. and this is very affordable for a single 35 year old woman who is trying to get on her feet and off the poverty train to a better life. hope the adult school is good.

I WANT SOME HELP REGARDIND MY FUTERE IN PSYCHOLOGY IAM DOING M.SC IN APPLLIED PSY WHAT SHALL I DO NOW IS IT ENOUGH

Your Professional Title/Credentials: B.APSYCHOLOGY

Are You Still In School? NO

Are You Working? NO

I would never even consider taking a class that lasted 8 weeks to be a M.A. that's rediculous. Besides, I dont think that should even lbe legal, but for now, it seems as if anyone can become a Medical Assistant in "less than 9 weeks!" What kind of program do you teach, "TEACH"? That seems absurd to me, and yes, it does give qualified and more educated M.A's a bad name. I have had 9 months of class, along with over 160 hours of on site clinical training on my extern to earn my diploma! Is your so called class even A,C, and E certified and is it accredited? something tells me your fly by night class is not!

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

As I've posted before:
I cannot teach everything they need to know. Our curriculum is approved by the State of California and we have articulation with the community colleges. My students only receive 5 units, but any little bit helps. Students can take another semester of front office and a med term class to round out everything nicely. Remember, I too, paid a lot for my training so I do know what it feels like. I don't think anyone has made a BAD decision regarding the costs, I just wanted to let all of you know what is available in California. I admire all of you for your dedication to the profession !

Don't shoot the messenger... I only want to inform that there are many options available. Always do your homework..
Our students sit for the CCMA... This is the California Certified Medical Assistant exam. BTW-none of my students has ever failed the test! Preparation is the key.

If you decide to attend a two year, community college program, that would be an excellent choice too. It would be an easier "step up" to an LVN or RN program.

Good luck to everyone.

is it true that MA's will be taking LPN positions?

Your Professional Title/Credentials: cna/sma

Are You Still In School? yes

Are You Working? yes

cant you help me on what to do see i want to get a job as an MA but have no experience and its been 4 years since i got my diploma.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? no

from my experience these private schools are crap with a capital c. I went to maric now kaplan. I dropped half way through. The school was so negative i had panic attacks which i no longer have since i dropped. Many people who go there are under age 25 and way too immature for the field! Alot of them are pregnant and have 5 kids, dirt poor, drug addicts, fresh out of prison or thieves! We had a student who was a shakey drug addict giving injections! Other students were bragging about drug use or were worried about drug screenings when they got to back office. the back office teacher i had was a real B-- gave me the eeebie jeebies when i first met her. high turn over of teachers and ma directer got fired. Im working with vocational rehab and my worker thought ma would not be good for me as i have a back injury and major depression. I am now persuing a certificate for free through the mental health system to be a peer advocate. hope it works out. I got picked on by the younger "children" in the school because im quiet, smart and kept to myself. I didnt fit in either and didnt want to assiciate with the immature lowlifes who went there. Im a good nice person with morals. too bad if they dont like that!!

Your Professional Title/Credentials: ma school drop out and happy about it

Are You Still In School? no

Waterbottle, Sorry this message is coming so late to your post. I have not even read this message board for sooooo long.

In the Oklahoma City area, pay for new MA's ranges anywhere from $8/hr to $13/hr. What is acceptable for a new MA? Who can say. I would think that $8-10 an hour is acceptable (this is all relative to the part of the country you are living in. Oklahoma is still a pretty cheap state to live in, comparatively).

Those new graduates seeking employment at $15/hr are pricing themselves out of the market. If you are seeking that type of pay right out of school, better choose some other occupation.

About 3 years ago, AMT dropped its criteria that candidates had to have at least a GED to sit for the certification exam. The organization felt that if you could pass the exam then you were qualified.

Current riteria to sit for the AMT (RMA) exam is one of the following:
1. Graduate of an AMT-recognized MA school
2. Minimum Five years employment as an MA
3. Former military-trained medic
4. Reciprocity (I don't know if AMT has reciprocity with any other certification agencies besides the AAMA).

For some of you that are having difficulty finding a job, I am not surprised after reading your posts. Your spelling and grammar is atrocious and your attitude stinks.

Bone up on your basic skills, get some more training and let the potential employer know WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THEM!!! Study for the AMT certification exam. AMT not as snobby as the AAMA.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: RMA (AMT) / Bachelor of Science degree in health education

Are You Working? Yes-volunteer MA at a medical clinic for indigent adult patitents

ladies, I am a medical assistant, and in my past jobs in GYN and primary care i was ordered to give basic shots such as B12 therapy and testosterone and birth control shots and a few others.

but now where i work they have asked to train me to do some spa injections, and they include botox, restylane and some B12 matobolizer mix. All FDA approved. However, they want to train me so when the Doctor is out i can do it for him.

So, my question is. Under doctors orders, am I allowed to do any injections at any time?

Is this based on hands on training? or do i need to be higher up on the food chain like an RN to be doing these?

I know when i was in scool i was told i was not allowed to start an IV as a medical assistant.

so that statement right there made me wonder if there were things that i legally could not do and if this involved the environment or my certification?

such as can i draw blood anywhere? or in a certain legal environment? I would think it would be environment in this case, becasue i was trained to do venipunctures.

But, these injections i need help....although i am good at the procedure of giving injections, i need to know what i am allowed to do and when and if it matters if they are insurance patients or cash patients in a spa setting....

can you help me???

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Certified MA

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? yes

i HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE INSTRUCTORS. Can Ma in california get certs for IV therepy please dont refer me to state of board site cant get an answer.

Are You Working? no

One overall thing I have a gripe about, as a practicing physician, is that the MA schools are not teaching what I want, as a physician.

Do I want you doing my billing? In all honesty, no/zero. I do not want someone with only a high school education keeping track of my billing, reports & posting deposits, that had 2 months of training in it. on a scale of 1-10, I'd rate this a 2 (nearly non-important). MA schools don't know this.

Do I want you to be able to work computer appointments or know manual appointment methods? Yes, in a pinch, But that is the IMO, the job of the front office person.

Do I want you to know & understand medical terminology & abbreviations? Yes. absolutely.

Would I *love* to have you be knowledgeable enough, to know how to get Epocrates Online on your handheld computer/iPhone type thing (that you should be having)? Yes, absolutely. You should know how to use apps like this when looking up & giving meds. By the time a book is published, it is out of date. So forget those hardcopy nursing drug manuals - ancient history. (MA schools don't know this either).

Do I want you to room a pt? Yes, clean up the room from the last pt, get the chart, take VS, hgt, wgt.

Do you need to know what is sterile & what is not (& how to clean it up)? Yes absolutely, or we both get in trouble (financially or morally).

Give injections? Yes. Know sites for various injections/ age group; IM, SQ, needle sites, gauge, syringe size.

Know math? Absolutely. Don't kill my patients with a wrong dose EVER.

Draw blood? Not super important as most offices send patients out to a lab. (On a scale of 1-10 this is a 3. MA schools don't know this).

Phone triage? Yes. Know what is an emergency & what is not, & let me know right away.

Know in house small tests (ie: Accucheck, Urine dip, PT, do an ECG)? Absolutely, & know to alert me STAT if any of these tests are really, in dangerous levels.

Assist me with minor office surgeries/ procedures? Yes, if just to be there, be sterile, & hand me things, or put your finger over a bleeder.

'MA schools don't know this.' -> Most of all, I would LOVE to have someone who keeps track of labs (ie: whether the pt went & got them. If so, on my desk promptly. AND let me know if 3-7 days has passed & I don't have the labs/ xrays etc. Then we need to get after the patient/ lab company/ hospital & find out what is going on). To have someone who gets the discharge summary & orders from the hospital when a patient of mine comes back to the office (before they suddenly show up under my shingle).

This they don't teach you in MA school. This test followup is one of my biggest gripes about MA schools. And, they don't even mention it, but that is far more important to me than your even doing a blood pressure (which I can do myself, if push comes to shove).

In a non-student related vein, I have called these MA schools to find out what they are about education-wise (West Coast). Unfortunately, they do not even have 1 MD/DO on staff for clinical guidance. This is a BIG mistake because people with Masters in Education are the program directors, & really, they can only guess what clinical practice involves - they have never experienced it. "Formal" talking/ meetings to ascertain what is necessary, with several M.D.s etc isn't going to cut it with what I want. You need to have been there.

A nurse can't teach you really, what a physician needs either. So they do not make a good program directors. Lots of nurses *think* they know, but don't (unfortunately, some won't admit it to themselves, either).

Loyalty? Yes. Don't trick me, & I won't treat you badly either. We are a team.

What would I pay? $15 to $20/hr to start. A good MA is nearly priceless & guaranteed a job for life, IMHO.

Be my "right Hand Man". so to speak.

Thanks for reading.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.D.

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? Yes

And, (after reading more of these posts).

1. Know how to spell (even in this forum), if you are using "Text-Speak" that is a real turn off to me.

2. No prior felonies. Misdemeanors, well, it depends.

3. No history of drug or alcohol abuse, ever.

4. No tattos (if you have them, they better be able to be covered up always, even in the hottest weather).

5. No "body jewelry" other than pierced earrings. Sorry, but I am not looking for a trendy fashion model, I don't need or want Hollywood. I need someone who looks & acts conservatively.

6. No spiked or un-natural colors of hair.

Appearance matters, so dress professionally. Be neat & clean.

HTH

Your Professional Title/Credentials: M.D.

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? Yes

I will give my 2 cents on private schools-go to a community college or public school instead! Not only are they cheaper, but a better education! Things are not shoved down your throat too quickly at a community college and if you have a disibility like i do, a community college offers support as most private schools do not. School is for everybody! I almost gave up on the medical field due to a bad experience at a private school. I also discovered that back office is not for me and so did my dept of vocational rehab counselor. We had agreed on me doing medical billing and coding at a communit college, which has the best disability support servics. I had proved that i could do good academic work as my average in front office there was a b or c at best. I did ok in back office and passed the ca state board written phlebotomy exam but dropped out. Im glad as im in less debt now. I have depression and low back problems which are being treated, but i didnt like the whole class in my medical buisness especially the immature ones. I felt very uncomforable in the class as im the nice quiet intellectual type and was picked on by kids. that brings on my depression symptoms as I was abused as a child and harassed by peers. I have lots of friends so it wasnt me. There were other reasons too why i dropped and felt very uncomfortable. nobody should be harassed for making a mistake either or saying the wrong thing. I think the community college will work out better.

Are You Still In School? yes

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Website Owner/Forum Admin

Are You Working? self-employed

Thank you for this article, MD! This is valuable information!

Jenny

This depends on where you are. I work with plenty of fellow nurses that have a lot of tattoos and piercings, even on their faces and they do not have to cover them up. As a medical assistant I had a nose piercing and they did not make me take it out.These things are becoming a lot more acceptable.

Also, just because some one has a history of EOTH or drug abuse..."ever" does not mean they can not be a medical assistant, many people go through rehab...

Sorry, but I doubt your a real doctor.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: RN-BSN, CLD, CCMA-C

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? Yes

In my experience, going to an accredited MA school was no guarantee of a good education. Cheating was rampant (and the instructors didn't care, they would even leave class during tests and once during a final!) One instructor gave the answers to the tests because he said it was the only way some students would pass. Our new books had so many mistakes. I was always finding things marked wrong on tests that I had gotten right because the teacher's answer key was even wrong. I was the only one in my class that got a 4.0 without cheating then I got to my externship and found out all of the things I didn't know how to do. The doctor told me it was a common problem. The first week of my extern she offered me a job but there were no benefits and the pay was low so I told her I would stay until she found someone else (she did 3 months later).

I recently worked 5 weeks in a dermatology office training to work 3 days/wk at the front desk (phones, scheduling, etc). It was for 3 physicians and I realized that I just didn't have enough experience to keep up with the pace needed (too bad because I loved the other 2 days a week working back office). The physician appreciated my honesty and said she would give me excellent references. So here I am, 52 yrs old, responsible, dedicated and I need a job. I love working back office, being with the patients and being part of a team. I previously worked part-time in neurology research. The problem I'm finding now is that job openings are for 2+ years of experience or for CMA's (which I plan to start working on). I'd love to have the 2+ years but first I've got to get the first year behind me.

From the little experience I have had, I do agree with the doctor that some of the MA schools are out of touch with what the medical community is looking for in a medical assistant. Obviously, depending on the specialty some doctors may utilize their MA's abilities more than others. It seems the schools need to be listening more to the medical community who will be hiring their students. These students are in many cases, paying a lot of money for an education that they assume is preparing them to work in whatever healthcare venues MAs are working. In my opinion (and in the opinion of my school career counselor), my education was below par and I think of that every month when those student loan payments come due.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? No

Good point, Maddy. Goes perfectly with what was originally Posted by M.D. => =>
"One overall thing I have a gripe about, as a practicing physician, is that the MA schools are not teaching what I want, as a physician."

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Website Owner/Forum Admin

Thank you so much for your post....as an M.D., I also thank you for taking the time to let us know what you really need from an M.A. I, for one, want to be exactly what you stated, a "right hand man" in the office. When I did my externship in an internal medicine clinic, all sorts of things came up and I was able to assist in a variety of situations. They did everything, sutures, applying casts, discovering dangerous situations that needed immediate attention. It was great experience....and I feel that you must have a personal gift for sensing urgencies, and knowing what the Dr. may need as he or she treats each indivudual patient. It was also a great learning experience. Alas, I am still not employed as an MA and it still remains a dream. I thank you again and hope that by some stroke of luck I happen upon an interview with an M.D. like yourself.

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? no

Good afternoon Teach, My hat is off to you. I think you doing really great job with your students. It really takes a special person to even want to be a Medical Assistant and even more special person to want to teach Medical Assisting. I went to Eagle Gate College in Salt Lake City, Ut. It took me 17 months to get through my MA Diploma program. I have no regrets...and I learned alot by real professionals and who I have come to know as professionals and as my friend. I've seen in my time at school students come and go and I could tell who would make and who would not...I have always had this gift since I was a wee little lad. I've been a CNA for 14 yrs. now and I've been a CMA for almost 2 yr. I work for the government as a contractor for the USAF as a CMA in family medicine. Every week we have an education for 3hrs. We learn everything we learned in school and then some things we never learned in MA school and it makes us stronger Medical Assistants we are also known as 4N's...and we are part of the nursing team. We train to do IV's and we only can only get them started with NS and no drugs...only LPN's and RN's can do that and before we give an injection to anyonewe have to know what we are giving and the route its given, and its side effects and if don't feel comfortable giving it we don't have to. What I'm trying to say is we do keep on learning even after college...and thank you for all you do into making sure your students will be great MA's and your right it does take a special person to become a Medical Assistant.

God bless,
Matt Edler, NCMA

Your Professional Title/Credentials: NCMA, (NCCT), CNA

Are You Still In School? No.

Are You Working? Yes.

I am 51 yrs old and recently graduated Medical Assisting/Clinical in the Los Angles area. I read you statement and I can honestly say that my instructor thinks the same way you do, as to what really needs to be taught to be a good back Medical Assistant. Included in the MA class were pharmacology and parenteral administration of medications this included some terminology plus 8 week extern at Kaiser Permante. I received a certificate in both. Then I took Medical Terminology this last summer and received a certificate in this also. I mainly just wanted to hello and to let you know that MY teacher, who I have so much respect for is apparently up on what most doctors want.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA

Are You Still In School? No

Hello it is me again. I have a couple questions for you, if you don't mind. (1) I was wondering if your practice is in California, if so, may I ask where is you practice located? (2) And by any chance are you looking for a new graduate MA? Just thought I would ask.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA

Are You Still In School? No

I believe the Doctor is correct about most of what was written except nurses do make great program chairs if they listen to what is being said i have taken a program from 169 students to well over 389 in one year so to make such a broad statement is ridiculous about nurses being program chairs.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: medical assisting program chair C.E.N R.N CMA/RMA

Are You Still In School? yes working on M.S in nursing

Are You Working? yes