I just spent a few hours on the allnurses.com boards reading, and had a comment. From what I have ready alot of RN's and LPN's seem to complain about CNA's and CMA's, claiming they put patients care in jeopardy etc...We all know there are big differences in these titles, in my experience as a CMA, I did everything that RN's do besides IV's...attempted a couple once with no luck:( I take offense to say because I am less educated I am not as good. Experience is the key element to anything, a monkey can graduate school, this is a proven fact, in my area I know of LPN's who can tell you HOW to do something but cannot actually DO it themselves. Anyway I think the reason LPNs and RNs get a little jumpy at the fact of CMA's is that we do almost the same thing and didnt study as much as them. They shouldnt be complaining they make more money to show off, however, if a nurse screws up it falls on her liscence...if i CMA screws up it falls on the physicians liscense, so hence that being said if you were a dr..wouldnt you make sure you were 150% confident that your CMA knew how and what to do? Afterall you wouldnt want something falling back on you. I dont agree with the chit chat of CMA's and CNA's being the same thing with different titles, nor saying MA's are a waste they are "drop out tech school grads" or "on the job trained" wannabe nurses. I am happy with my position. I have no need to further my education, if it was about money I would probably become an RN for just that the money aspect...but with my husband being a PA going to med school and a 2nd LT in the US Army, money is not an issue, its about patient care for me. Just my opinion though.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CCMA

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? no

I am a CMA going back to get my RN. The fact that you say you do almost as much as a nurse but don't have the credentials kind of scares me. If it were the same, we would all have the same title. Nurses learn the nursing process- assessing, diagnosing, planning, implementing and evaluatiing patients as well as teaching. We don't just learn how to do a procedure, but why we do it, what causes the need for it, what are the complications from it etc..
Us CMA's are trained to give shots yes, but what do you know about the drugs we are giving? This is not taught in school and it why the physician is ultimately responsible. Just one example.
Don't get me wrong. I am a CMA and am currently working as such, loving it. We are a wonderful asset to the clinic setting and serve an important role in healthcare. I do however know my limitations and know the difference between CMA's and nurses responsibilities. There is quite a bit of difference. Check out one of your local school websites and look at the class requirements for a nursing program. Sorry you felt slighted over there, everyone has their opinions. This is mine

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA/ RMA/CNA /SN

Are You Still In School? Yes

Are You Working? Yes

I agree and support Tracy's feedback. She nailed it. Medical Assistants are highly valued and respected members of the health care team, as a whole. However, our education, although sufficient, is nearly as indepth as that of the RN. We do, indeed, know how to administer injections, and know where and how, but we do not know nearly enough about the reasons, reactions, pathways, and physiological effects of those medications (and many other things having to do with diseases and disease processes).

And that is why the supervising physiciaon or other licensed health care provider, such as PA or nurse practitioner are responsible for the medical assistants training, evaluation, and actions.

Thanks Tracy. I agree. Good point which has NOTHING to do with downgrading or bashing in any way. Medical assistants and nurses are both important and each one has his/her place in today's health care system.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Website Owner/Admin

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I simply meant as in turn to whats done, not the education behind it, its not our job to know why only how....but its not right to say because we dont know "why" that we are jeopardizing a patients healthcare...if that were the case ya might as well "or they might as well" say that the dr is jeapordizing the pt, because we as MA's only carry out what our docs ordered us to do. RNs do know more education part of it, but as far as the actual "hands on" work, i am just as good as any RN, in fact have had many pts tell me i am better, as well as drs. On the actual procedure part of it I am meaning.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CCMA

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? no

Here is one example. When we learned about cells our medical assisting instructor (A&P) tells us the following about the function of cell organelles:


Endoplasmic reticulum (ER) -- Passageway for transport of materials within the cell
Synthesis of lipids

Ribosomes -- Site of protein synthesis


Golgi apparatus -- Synthesis of carbohydrates


Mitochondria -- Site of aerobic cell respiration - ATP production


Lysosomes -- Contain enzymes to digest ingested material or damaged tissue

Centrioles -- Organize the spindle fibers during cell division


Cilia -- Sweep materials across the cell surface


Flagellum -- Enables a cell to propel and move in different directions


This was enough for us to know.



In nursing school the students learn the following about the inner processes of the cells:



ATP is a nucleotide that performs many essential roles in the cell. It is the major energy currency of the cell, providing the energy for most of the energy-consuming activities of the cell. It is one of the monomers used in the synthesis of RNA and, after conversion to deoxyATP (dATP), DNA.

The major energy currency molecule of the cell, ATP, is critical for all life from the simplest to the most complex.


Synthesis of ATP

ADP + Pi → ATP + H2O

requires energy: 7.3 kcal/mole

occurs in the cytosol by glycolysis

occurs in mitochondria by cellular respiration

occurs in chloroplasts by photosynthesis




Consumption of ATP

ATP powers most of the energy-consuming activities of cells, such as: Most anabolic reactions.

Examples:
joining transfer RNAs to amino acids for assembly into proteins
synthesis of nucleoside triphosphates for assembly into DNA and RNA
synthesis of polysaccharides
synthesis of fats
active transport of molecules and ions
nerve impulses
maintenance of cell volume by osmosis
adding phosphate groups (phosphorylation) to many different proteins, e.g., to alter their activity in cell signaling.

muscle contraction
beating of cilia and flagella (including sperm)
bioluminescence



Ugh... try to understand that.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Website Owner/Admin

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Are You Working? Yes

LMAO Danni! Try figuring out the krebs cycle, it's a killer!! Can you believe I work as a TA for A&P II and actually volunteered for the job? :)
Along with the cells, we also go into structure and function of bacterial and viral cells.
This is a big issue as it determines how various antibiotics and other drugs work, by either killing the cell, or preventing more from multiplying ( bacteriocidal vs bacteriostatic).

I understand how you feel about procedures. Yes you can give a good injection, I am not doubting that. What if your patient started having an allergic reaction, could you assess the pt? What if they had an adverse drug reaction, developed a lump at the injection site, you hit the sciatic nerve? Do you know the rationale and implications of the drug to respond accordingly? Can you interpret their labs to determine why they need such treatment? What is the most important issue at hand that needs management? Those are some of the differences.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA/ RMA/CNA /SN

Are You Still In School? Yes

Are You Working? Yes

Just another note on procedures. Nurses not only give shots and draw blood, do EKG's, but we do cathethers, irrigate them, do tube feedings, change central line dressings, telemetry, colostomy dressings, do wound cultures, NG tubes, trach suctioning, hang blood products, calculate drug dosages,enemas and rectal tubes, and other procedures that I was never taught as an MA. Things may have chnges sine 1993 though LOL!

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA/ RMA/CNA /SN

Are You Still In School? Yes

Are You Working? Yes

You wrote "What if your patient started having an allergic reaction, could you assess the pt? What if they had an adverse drug reaction, developed a lump at the injection site, you hit the sciatic nerve? Do you know the rationale and implications of the drug to respond accordingly? Can you interpret their labs to determine why they need such treatment? What is the most important issue at hand that needs management?

Nurses not only give shots and draw blood, do EKG's, but we do cathethers, irrigate them, do tube feedings, change central line dressings, telemetry, colostomy dressings, do wound cultures, NG tubes, trach suctioning, hang blood products, calculate drug dosages,enemas and rectal tubes, and other procedures that I was never taught as an MA. Things may have chnges sine 1993 though LOL"

Yes things have changed since 1993. I currently teach MA's and SST's. My students have been trained to give injections, draw blood, perform nasal, wound, throat cultures, perform a number of lab procedures IAW CLIA regulations, perform catheterization, instill NG tubes, suction trachs, calculate drug dosages, administer enemas and instill rectal tubes. They can also perform ECG's and have been trained to recognize various life threatening as well as common non-life threatening arrhythmias. As an anecdotal note, one of my students, during her extern rotation identified an arrhythmia in a patients ECG as well as ST changes indicating an Acute MI. The patient, who was told by the RN on duty, that he just had “an upset stomach”, was rushed to the local Heart Hospital where he is recovering nicely because my student knew what to do and how to do it including evaluating the situation and taking the correct steps to care for the patient properly.

In my Pharm 202 course, which is going on now, my students can quickly identify adverse reactions and know exactly how to deal with them. Yes they can evaluate the situation properly and perform all the necessary duties within their scope of practice. In addition they learn about toxicity, cumulation, etc and how to recognize drug interactions, side effects and special concerns. All of the concerns you listed are part of our curriculum. I would assume the curriculum is similar in other schools as well.

So yes things have changed and are changing. The MA's today are receiving much better training then they have in the past and are making great contributions in today's healthcare world.

Chris

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Instructor for CMA's and SST's

Are You Still In School? Yes as an instructor

Are You Working? Yes

Wow, thank you for that info!
I take it MA's are being hired at hospitals with that type of training? That is not the case where I live.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA/ RMA/CNA /SN

Are You Still In School? Yes

Are You Working? Yes

ChiefWms, I am curious whether the medical assistants you teach graduate with a diploma or with a degree. It seems this program is excellent and you take a lot of pride in what you do (which of course benefits the students and shows in their attitude and work. How long is the program? Can you also tell us where?

Apparently it is a properly accredited school. Which certification exams do your students go on to take (Which certification body?).


Danni

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Website Owner/Admin

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? Yes

Danni, Yes I am proud of my students. They certify utilize several certification routes but AAMA is probobly most frequently utilized. Most of my students are also certified in phelbotomy and coding before they graduate with an AA degree after 2 years with us. They attend one class at a time 3.5 - 4 hrs per day 3-4 days per week depending upon which class they are taking or which program they are in. I teach MA's and SST's too. Right now I'm teaching Pharmacology 202, Next term I will be teaching Clinicals II and doing a copule of independent study programs in Pharmacology.

I'm in Dayton OH. We have several schools in the area competing for students. By the time ours get to the field they have more actual hands on experience when compared to others in the area.

To give you an example my Clinical III students have to complete a minimum of 10 good venipunctures with full draws and a minimum of 10 fingersticks and capillary tubes before they can take their final exam. If they want to certify for phlebotomy they have to complete another 25. They draw on each other, other students from other classes (sometimes for extra credit) and faculty members brave enough to allow them to draw. My pharmacology class will be doing IM, SC and ID injections on each other they will perform a minimum of 5 each prior to their final competency at the end of the term.

Any further information I can provide I'll be happy to give you if I'm able.

Have a great evening.
Chris

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Instructor for CMA's and SST's

Are You Still In School? Yes as an instructor

Are You Working? Yes

Just thought I would put my 2cents in being new to this forum and website.
But when I gradutated with all those skills I graduated with honors with an Associates Degree in Medical Assisting.

Thanks,
DiAnne

Your Professional Title/Credentials: MA

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? yes

Oh I forgot to answer part of your question. They graduate with an Associates Degree.

Sorry,
Chris

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Instructor for CMA\'s and SST\'s

Are You Still In School? Yes as an instructor

Are You Working? Yes

Thanks Chris. I am very impressed. Your post should serve as an inspiration to all interested in the medical assisting profession.

Keep in touch! Hope to also meet some of your students here to network with their peers and lend a helping hand.

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Website Owner/Admin

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? Yes

Chris, this goes with our "Sad but true! Where are the men?" thread...

I am curious: How many male students participate and graduate -- roughly? From your experience, what's the ratio and is there a certain trend (more vs. less men joining their female counter parts in the medical assisting classroom???)

Any interesting feedback or trends?

Thanks.

Danni

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Website Owner/Admin

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? Yes

Ratio? Hmmm lets see. Last term I had 1:20 ratio men to women. This term I have 0:40 in my class. The term prior to those two I had a 1:30 ratio. Needless to say it's not very good. We have more men in our massage therapy and Surgical Scrub Tech programs then we do in the entire MA program. We will graduate 3 male MA's this year and I believe there is only ONE left for next years graduation.

Most of our men are in the various business, office management and information management programs we offer here.

Chris

Your Professional Title/Credentials: Instructor for CMA\'s and SST\'s

Are You Still In School? Yes as an instructor

Are You Working? Yes

to you that compares yourself to doing as much as an RN, take some of their coursework. I will grant you that their are some that rest on their laurels. Doing as little as possible. Then again there are many repeatMANY who are not above hygeine care or emptying a bed pan.... it is sad you have to see motion to think someone is doing their job....heres a question How come you have all this free time to evaluate a Nurse job performance? it's so easy to be judgemental about unknown things....and I was informed that the PCT was the replacement for the LPN.....thats close to 2 years from being a RN

Your Professional Title/Credentials: PCT/ MA

Are You Still In School? no

Are You Working? nope

Agree with Tracy. I too am scared by some of your statements michele.. Unfortunately I've met quite a few MA's that think they are the same as an actual nurse and overstep the limits of their education by giving medical advice to patients & others(who believe they are speaking with a nurse). Unfortunately many even call themselves "nurses" on their voice mails (ie, say "I am Dr.So&So's nurse!)

Its appalling. Look at the cirriculum Rn's & lpns go through which is MANDATORY & the state boards they take MANDATORILY. That is exactly why so many opt to be MA's versus actual nurses! Ma's are not even required to have any education but can learn OJT. Nursing school is rough baby! Very.

Sorry Michele, need the money or not as you said(DH who is a PA, & still in school, they sure don't make that much) sounds like there is sour grapes that while you may perform similar procedures, actual nurses are in charge & get more respect all around (which is why so many claim to be a nurse even if they are not!) and of course more money. Sounds like you are tired of playing second fiddle.

Theres nothing wrong with being an MA, I think they do serve a real need & many are quite professional behaving, however think one should be honest all around that one is a Medical Assistant and NOT a nurse & be clear to others. & understand ones educational limitations. Just as nurses don't claim to be docs.

Regards all.

"To give you an example my Clinical III students have to complete a minimum of 10 good venipunctures with full draws and a minimum of 10 fingersticks and capillary tubes before they can take their final exam. If they want to certify for phlebotomy they have to complete another 25. They draw on each other, other students from other classes (sometimes for extra credit) and faculty members brave enough to allow them to draw. My pharmacology class will be doing IM, SC and ID injections on each other they will perform a minimum of 5 each prior to their final competency at the end of the term. "

Yep, we did the same in my diploma program. I believe these are the requirements for either the ABHES or CAAHEP accredition. I did look all that up at one time.

Lorraine
CMA, CNA

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA, CNA

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? Yes

Dan, I don't know that the PCT is actually a replacement for the LPN. I do think that hospitals are phasing out LPNs and dividing their duties between the PCT and RN. Here in PA, probably 90-95% of the LPN positions are in LTC. Hospitals are pretty much hiring PCTs to do what is in their scope of practice (which varies I think state to state)and having the RNs do the remainder of the LPN duties that the PCT can't. Unfortunately, I don't think they're hiring MORE RNs now that they also have to do some LPN duties so the RNs have even more on their plates. Meanwhile, they're saving big bucks by having PCTs instead of LPNs. Seems like it's all about the almighty buck.

Lorraine
CMA, CNA

Your Professional Title/Credentials: CMA, CNA

Are You Still In School? No

Are You Working? Yes