Satanism is stupid because: 'Satanists' are basically anti-christian, even though Satan is a christian concept. The biblical devil was once an Angel, very close to the creator, who was then cruelly punished for not understanding the distinction between himself and God, therefore challenging God's status. I don't have a problem with people worshipping Horned Gods, or transforming hi-jacked Pagan concepts like the Devil, back into Gods is cool, but worship the Christian devil in and of itself seems kind of moronic patriarchal and backward.

A bit of trivia for you. Lucifer was the angel of light.

- Light.

Favorite Froud Book? The runes of Elfland

Traditionally, "satanism" isn't devil worship at all, but merely a libertarian/libertine-leaning branch of atheism.

Whether it's stupid or not... to paraphrase a quote from Voltaire, I may not believe the way some do, but I will defend their Right to believe in anything they choose.

Hmm, I'd have to agree with Pyrian. From what I understand, one of the major divisions of Satanism is based on using man's weaknesses and self-serving whims to be successful in life: greed, narcissism, etc.
To each their own though. I prefer not calling other religions or spiritual belief systems "stupid." There are probably plenty of people outside of this circle who would find the Faery faith and what it's based on to be loopy.

I too would have to agree with Pyrian, from my understanding of the subject. Also, calling it stupid is a judgement, which is just as bad as the way many people have had negative experiences in the guise of religion, the catholic church in my own experience. The goal, is to be open to all beliefs, even if they do not tie in with my own.

yes..well hmm...in my somewhat skewed opinion of it all right now, every single religion out there is pretty silly. All of them try to take this huge immense unexplainable thing and shove it into little tiny boxes and sell it in little hour long (or however long) chunks.

Yea Satanism is silly too...stoopid may be a bit too strong of a word, but, it's definitely on par with many of the others.
I don't really see the point in any of it, beyond the socializing that meetings like that allow...
Religion is a deeply personal experience...and if you decide you want to worship the gum on the sidewalk, I say go for it! if that is where you find true meaning.
Now all that aside, most Satanists I've met are in it more for the shock value than the spiritual experience...which makes it even more of a club and less of a religion IMO.
LOL I hope this makes sense and I'm sorry if I offend anyone...but "it's a joy to offend the easily offended" as Mark Twain said, so I'm not too sorry
(I may regret posting this in the morning as I'm in a very ******* mood right now...Oh well)

OMG ******* as in *********** cactus (Opuntia genus) is a bad word? I had no idea

Wow, I thought this one might be controversial. Please note that I am not attacking Satanists, merely seeking your aid in discerning whether or not I am correct in my view that Satanism, as a philosophy, or religion is out of kilter with the infinate intelligence of the universe (Satanism is stupid, yes?).

So, if Satanism came from Atheism, and had nothing to do with the Devil, what the hell was it about? I'm guessing the concepts merged somewhere along the line.

Favorite Froud Book? The runes of Elfland

Laiste, you just described my ex boyfriend Chris in a nutshell! And I have to disagree in that it's not so much stupid as dangerous. Because people either don't believe the devil and demons are real(or angels/God...atheists don't believe in either) OR they know they're real and trying to 'serve' them, and that's stupid BECAUSE it's dangerous! One reason I can't completely go over to the wiccan/pagan side is I believe both good and evil are real and embodied in higher spiritual beings. Now I realize Satanism per se is mislabled...I think it should be called Dionysism/Bacchanism because it's all about being true to and serving oneself. Which Chris has embraced fully, lol. But he's into the darker, destructive aspects of it. He writes rap songs that are pretty much about nothing but killing, serving his dark master(ugh!), taking over the world, blood, guts and lust. I don't want to surround myself with someone who is a black hole of destruction.

"The biblical devil was once an Angel, very close to the creator, who was then cruelly punished for not understanding the distinction between himself and God, therefore challenging God's status."

The Biblical Angel of Light - Lucifer, was not severely punished for not sucking up to God-- he broke away from his former union with God and rejected the Creator so that he could be his own God. He smoothtalked other angels to come with him. He was jealous of God's Authority and wanted it for himself, whereas, God was never enamored by his own authority-- he just loved everyone for who they were and how they contributed with their own individual personality to the Kingdom. Lucifer was not only the Angel of Light, he was also a master musician. He uses music now to cause illness or lust on Earth, instead of healing. God did not take his gifts away from him., but he uses these gifts now to get back at God by hurting Earth and anything to do with the Creator.

This seperation took place in Lucifer's heart long before his physical seperation. I believe that what reallly happened was that God confronted Lucifer and told him "you are not forced to stay here. You may go your own way."

Some angels went along with Lucifer, and some did not. God didnt stop them and probably asked the remainder of angels, "Will you go to?" with a broken Heart. Free Will was and has always been what the Creator stands by. Religious humanity needs to accept this.

The parable of the "Prodigal Son" may be a little prophetic of Lucifer one day eon's from now coming back to God just as the prodigal son returned to his father. Don't forget that the prodigal son was very priviledged just as Lucifer was.

Mankind--especially new Christians often scorn Satan and deride him, but neither Christ or Angels and Arch Angels will ever scoff at him. They look at him with sadness because he was their friend at one time. They pray for him to one day return to the Father's Heart.

Favorite Froud Book? Fairy Oracle Cards

How very interesting -- considering that the story you just related was obviously written by someone who had absolutely NO first-hand knowledge of what -- or even if -- anything of the sort ever happened.

A wholly rational person cannot ever 'know' any 'truth' when it comes to religion of any sort, but can only choose to believe the things they are told. That part is called 'faith', and is the basis of EVERY religion, from the tiniest cult following to the broad-spread encompassment of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and all the others.

However, it must be remembered that choosing to believe in anything does not necessarily make it "right" or "True" -- none of us will ever know for certain if anything we believe is correct until such time as we pass from this world and go on to the next, be it Heaven, Purgatory, Hell, the Elysian Fields, or even Neverland.

Okay, off my educational pedestal (aka soapbox) and back to lurking...

Well done. Couldn't agree with this sentiment more if I tried. LOl! :0)

Wow. Not touching this with a 10-foot pole. Just here to spread some L-O-V-E!

While I admire your defiant positivity relating to the Satan story, I can't really disagree with the shrewed, rational, anti-rational sentiment travelling through the thread.

I've spent enough time in hell to understand that it is a creation of the church. If you can recall having a deep personal understanding of hell, you may have your own perspective on hell and not seek to debunk my wisdom with your christian fantasies. Taking a revisionist perspective to Christianity is brave, but not really practical. If you are going to vision-quest about creation, maybe you could study some other creation myths so you can get a bigger picture.

I do have some basic understanding about the story that God punished old Lucy for getting a big head which is why Lucifer resides in hell, instead of being a God. Unfortunately, the way you have quoted me gives the impression that what I am recounting is inaccurate, or rather, completely in opposition to the 'facts'. You might enjoy only quoting that which is relevant to your perspective.


Anyway, I don't really care about that. I love a good sword-fight. Fire me up enough and my eyes will turn red. (..hell is my eye patch?!)

Actually, I realise that I was attacking Satanists in my original post. This was not my intention, sorry about that. - Light

Favorite Froud Book? The runes of Elfland

That is at best and kindest, an overly simplistic explanation of what satanism can be, and dangerously naive. This above would apply perhaps to someone dabbling into it at best.

The truth about satanism as well as it's cousin luciferianism, are both far more sinister, ancient in practice, ritualized, and heinous (long term plans)than most here would care to imagine possible. The power elite (illuminati, freemasons etc..)are heavily involved in utilizing its various methods and rituals to achieve and hold power. Amongst the most sadistic and self serving of the occult practices,in its most ardent forms involved human and animal torture and sacrifice, necessary to feed the demonic entities that it sustains.

It is one path and your choice, except arguably for those who are born into it (intergenerational)for who suffer a terrible cost and often feel hopelessly trapped from the start (and is where I learned about it from someone who is), and to them my heart is extended. OTherwise, who am i to judge, even perhaps those born into it do I really know? I remain compassionate for those who suffer, by choice or not.

Ultimately I FEEL it exists at our level of spiritual evolution for the lessons, as a cautionary tale, sadly needed for all of us to learn from (indirectly or directly). It is the left hand path, an extreme example of what one can do with freewill when followed with self/ego, and lust for control and power over not just oneself, but over others (as quickly and easily as possible), as the primary motivations. This dark path is lacking significantly if not in totality in compassion and empathy, which IS by contrast, the path towards a "Christ" spirit. Mistakes are important for learning, but satanism and related are costly.

Please know I am not a bible thumper, jesus freak or Christian, I don't think there is one right way or one right religion, or that Jesus was the only son of god (just a great teacher). I consider myself imperfect and seeking, but with more christ/gnostic (compassionate)oriented beliefs, but also pagan(a love for mother earth and nature spirits)and eastern philosophies (seeker of truth, balance and reason and karma)modern and old ways alike. ("There is no religion, higher than truth" - Tom Montalk - "A wicked mind is a weapon of mass destruction." Faithless)

I'm not going to elaborate more other than i will say the post should really be called, why Satanism is extremely dangerous, as there is a terrible karmic cost for those who follow it. You may get what you want initially, but you will only find yourself in more pain in the long run from all the blood and pain that you let for personal gain.

Truth is the way, truth and positivity. If it hurts you and others, think twice. Be wise as a serpent if you wish, but be harmless as a dove.

Favorite Froud Book? Good Faeries Bad Faeries

I was going to keep my mouth shut, as I think debating spirituality is a fruitless waste of time due to the fact that it is about intensely personal belief. However, I do want you to know that I take personal offense to your implications equating Freemasons with devil-worshippers. Hollywood and popular culture, as well as absurd conspiracy theorists have skewed and grossly distorted the public's view of contemporary Freemasonry. Do you know any Freemasons? I do. My fiance's father was VERY high up in the organization. My fiance has recently become involved.

Most (not all) masons are Christian. Freemasons expect their members to uphold certain standards of morality. Freemasons are also involved in numerous community service projects and have many charitable organizations. Just because they are based heavily in ritual does not necessarily mean they worship the devil or are involved in animal or human sacrifice.

Are there Satanist Freemasons? Probably a handful, as the religious requirement for being a Freemason is simply belief in a supreme being. But for the most part, Freemasonry is based historically in Christianity, and most of its brotherhood (there are also female groups within the organization now) are Christian. Some religions who believe in Christ and condemn Satan, such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, have actually adopted some of the Freemasons' rituals into the worship of their God. Be careful when you fling out judgements when you obviously are not educated on what you're talking about. Have enough respect to get your facts straight before making implications like the ones you have made. Heavy ritual is not necessarily and indicator of evil or self-serving beliefs.

Again, I don't debate what's "right" or "wrong" to believe. THAT is dangerous. Bigotry, narrowmindedness, intolerance, and ignorance are dangerous. I know a couple of LaVeyan Satanists who have been very good friends to me and who are happy in their religion. They don't practice any blood sacrifice or hurt people or animals. There are different sects and paths in Satanism, as with any other religion. Please do some research. Not all Satanists are hate-filled cutter emo kids who grow up to kill, abuse, and molest people. That is a Hollywood stereotype. Yes, some people are attracted to those stereotypes and adopt them into their own personal paths, just like people who have watched The Craft and Charmed and emulated the "witchcraft" portrayed in them.

There are people who would hurt and harm others from all walks of life and from all different spritual and religious backgrounds. Some of the early Celtic Pagans committed terrible human atrocities. Does that mean all Pagans are bloodthirsty *******s? Goodness, no! There are instances of these atrocities in any religion. True, there are and have been a few sporadic suicidal and homicidal cults (with various religious bases, mind you), but Satanism, generally speaking is not one of these cults. There may be little pockets of it in Satanism like there is in Christianity, Islam, etc.

You can find a lot of information on Satanism here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm They debunk a lot of people's misconceptions about the majority of Satanists.

You can also read about many other religions on this website.

People do it to cause a reaction, that's all. I mean as far as i'm concerned the devil is just a silly made up character, which lots of people are scared of and intimidated by, which is in itself sad and oppressing. I wouldn't do satanism myself, but any religion where people are threatened or scared by a particular character, especially on this scale, is very unprogressive. It's hardly freedom of choice in your life, when you are taught as a child a scary devil will take you to hell if you do the wrong thing, and your own moral decisons don't matter except what you are told to think. Satanism often seems a kind of backlash from that really, people who have been taught one thing and become angry that they were made to fear something that is probably not real.