Just starting a wee discussion here and wondered what peoples thoughts are on this if it was to ever happen.

Fife has four clubs and they have had credible history and success respectively, but in terms of future success and stability of each of the clubs would it not make more sense to merge the clubs into just 2 teams.

Obviously due to location East Fife and Raith merging as one.

Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath merging as one.

Fact of the matter is East Fife don't and will not attract the number of fans which will fill the ground, even in the 1st Division (even if promoted)

Be the same with Cowdenbeath.

Rovers even when excelling last season were never getting huge crowds.

And finally look at Dunfermline in the SPL, never filling the ground (even v old firm) and the consequence is the closure of their north stand.

In my opinion this would attract more fans if there was 2 teams, bigger crowds = more stable clubs and better atmosphere. The clubs will grow and improve. Also instead of 4 youth teams fighting it out to sign the best young players in the area, better quality youngsters coming through the ranks which will save on transfers etc.

Just looking for your thoughts guys on this so try to keep on topic and let me know your honest opinions.

This idea is mentioned every so often, and every so often it is rejected.
Crowds are down for every team in the league. We have to accept that as the reality of where Scottish football is in 2011, instead of blaming it on Fife having four clubs.
Filling the ground is a red herring. If East Fife were in the First Division and got 1500 a week (i.e. not filling the ground) that would be a healthy crowd.
Likewise your remark about Dunfermline closing a stand. So what? They have a big ground, and it makes sense not to open a stand if it is not required. It was needed only seven or eight months ago, and it will be needed again.
The biggest problem you have is to think that two teams merging into one would result in an increased attendance. I don't believe it would, but even if it did, the combined team wouldn't be much better off than the bigger team. If you combined all four clubs in Fife, you would get a team who would struggle to stay in the SPL. Just like Dunfermline.
Or try merging Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath, as you suggest. If every Cowdenbeath fan went to East End Park instead, the Dunfermline average attendance of 4000 to 5000 would increase by approximately 350. Do you think that would provide enough extra revenue to tempt Scott Brown back to his native west Fife? It wouldn't be enough to add any more than a couple of average players to the existing Pars squad.
I have to laugh at the remark about saving on transfers. How much do you think East Fife, Cowdenbeath and Raith Rovers have spent on transfers in the last few years? Nothing.
But the real giveaway is when you refer to Raith Rovers "excelling" last season. They didn't get out of the First Division. That is not excelling. When it came to the crunch, their title challenge was exposed as daydreaming.

You obviously don`t know the definition of excelling.From 4th bottom the previous season to second top on one of the smallest budgets,manager named manager of the year is excelling but don`t let the facts get in the way of your bitterness.

Amalgamation...Don`t think it will ever happen never mind work. Which ground do they play at?Who manages the team?Which players do you select etc etc..How do manage existing clubs debts?

But in the main crowds would not increase as the majority of supporters of the four Fife teams would not accept amalagamation .

Is there a single Fife supporter who would want us to merge with Raith?

I've yet to meet one.

The myth of the smallest budget is peddled once more. If your budget was so small, why did you have to release 15 players at the end of the season? Even your manager admitted your squad was far too big. You spent beyong your means, and that's why you had to slash costs, and why you have been in financial trouble this season.
As for McGlynn being manager of the year, that went to the wrong person. He came nowhere near the achievements of Barry Smith, who saw his Dundee team lose all its best players after administration and started the season with 25 points deducted, but avoided relegation and in fact earned nine more points than Raith did. If they had not lost 25 points as a punishment, they would have finished one point behind Dunfermline - a hell of a lot closer than Raith did.
The only reason McGlynn won manager of the year is because his pal Craig Levein put him up for it.

Read my post again



Budget was small in comparison to other clubs in the division and the reason for releasing 15 players(some part time)was due budget cuts for this season like most clubs have had to do and with mcGlynn opting for a squad of full time players as opposed to a mix of part time and full time.




for spending beyond their means see Dundee,Dunfermline

Besides,you`ll struggle to name a club who hasn`t/doesn`t spent beyond its means.

Do elaborate on our finacial trouble this season?





Its voted on by other managers so don`t know why your peddling the Levein line



Dundee did extremely well by having the everyones against me attitude which transferred onto the pitch,it could equally have gone the other way.However they didn`t lose all their best players in fact kept the core of their best players as in the likes of Harkins.



All ifs and buts .Dundee should have been put out of business.Dundee have a bigger budget than Raith and other clubs in the 1st..Not bad for a club who entered administration last season leaving a trail of creditors in its wake

I'll give you a name and a reality check Wullie Gray he sooked you lot in big style.So in the words of a wiser person than myself "don't throw stones in greenhouses"Either put up or shut up.Have you black and yellows been in the premier league or division yet all I hear is the sound of silence and in your lifetime have least fife ever played in a european competition again silence.Yes spout your history which I personally think is wonderful for a team from fife and should be remembered,but don't go throwing it up anytime someone reminds you you've haven't done much recently.As far as amalgamation goes it might happen if hibs and hearts,dundee and dundee utd,celtic and rangers do it otherwise don't think so.The problem with scottish football is that it's overpriced and the football on display is crass,this all comes down to the greed of a few to the many that follow the tail that wags.

Not interested in a point by point argument, you're wasting your time.
But I had to laugh again when you said that the points tallies are all "ifs and buts". They are plain arithmetic based on three points for a win, one for a draw and none for a defeat.
And how charming that you say Dundee "should have been put out of business". By who? And why? Under what legislation or rule? How quickly you forget that it's not so long since the begging bucket was out in Kirkcaldy when Raith were heading for the wall. You were pleading for help at that time but when someone else is down, your first instinct is to kick them. That says it all about you.

Not sure of your point re Wullie Gray, but at least we had a short term fix with him at the helm, might have festered for even longer in the 3rd had he not come along.

Totally against merging, we either need to cut our cloth or adopt some more radical ideas to increase crowds, revenue and achieve promotion to the 1st. Haven't heard any mention of 5 year plans for a while, but we could certainly do with hearing what our CEO plans for us beyond this season.

What's happened to the trust rep. Has he been allowed to the board meetings?

Why is that,because you no answer to them?Although I see your happy to quote one point.Not an arguement its a discusion/debate




Your arithmetic is good but its still ifs and buts..You said IF they had not lost 25 points as a punishment, they would have finished one point behind Dunfermline -.Whos to say how many points the would have equated if they had not been deducted 25 points.As I said the developed a seige everyones against attitude which they transferred to the pitch which was the catalyst for their phenomenal run.It could easily not have been the case.



I said should not could...The creditors if they had a set of balls(some did) could have put the club out of business and Dundee were fortunate that HMRC were/are not a preferred creditor.If they win the court case the next club might not be so fortunate.

Why?are you serious?Heres a club/company who have basically cheated the system,wracked up debts not once but twice of 20 mill and 2.5 mill and said fuck it,we can`t pay our bills,administrations the way ahead,set up a CVA and pay back peanuts in the pound and you ask why they should be out of business.Its the same for the normal punter on the street,wrack up debt,set up a CVA,pay back peanuts in the pound .Now a don`t know about you but I pay my taxes and find a bit galling that Dundee can wrack up a debt of £350K to HMRC.Who do you think picks up the tab?It would also appear Dundee have not learned their lesson and if a vote goes in DFSCC favour it will see another outside investor coming in and the cycle will begin again.Something that after admin said they would not do.This money will be for players and a reserve pot.They are just not happy to try and live within their means.




We were never in administration,not even once so don`t know what your getting at...On another note,Livi are another club who should not be trading

I was Trust Rep as an Associate Director for 18 months, Eugene Clarke is the current Trust Rep as a full director as the sticky at the top of the forum will tell you, and yes he attends board meetings as has always been the case even when I was an Associate Director.

Blue, you are proving very little. I haven't read all of your post. As I said before, I'm not interested in your blow-by-blow self-righteous point of view because I know your type only too well. From a glance, you would prefer if Dundee and Livingston were put out of business. The one point you DO prove is that you are more of a scumbag than a football supporter. How about taking your prejudices to a forum where they might be more appreciated?

I think I am



You are,you responded.





Correct..Twice in administration and a long line of creditors.Wonder if you would have a different opinion if you happened to be one.




Nope,a football supporter and tax payer.




Why because you don`t like my opinion?Thought this was an open forum where the likes appreciated reasoned debate with a difference of opinion without the name calling.

Please just go away.

Why should he it's a well balanced arguement,and his opinion of what should happen to Ferranti Thistle and Dundee are correct as far as I am concerned.It's happening to Rangers just now let's see what if anything the S.F.A or S.P.L do to them.

Blue states;
"We were never in administration,not even once so don`t know what your getting at...On another note,Livi are another club who should not be trading"

Fact is, only 2 months ago Raith were teetering on the brink of oblivion and from what i can gather (v.g.source) still are.
I`d watch this space if i were you. The rumblings are you cant afford to sustain life in the 1st division.

ps
your rent's about to go up on the stadium you lease.

kind regards

Oblivon No,possible administration Yes..Still are,No.



I`ll keep coming back to watch this space seeing as you know so much about Rovers finances.

We are no different to most teams in the first in not being able sustain life/full time football in the division.In fact many teams cannot afford to sustain life in the SPL,2nd Divisions and 3rd Divisions.Thats Scottish football for you



Geezo,who is your source?The rent on the stadium has just been reduced.The owner/s are in the process of prepairing redevelopment of the delapidated Railway Stand for hospitality purposes at no cost to the club.

Ps

Get a new source

Blue -

Agree that you are no different from many other teams regarding survival, but you are well different from us. We live within our means and are in no danger of administration etc like your team are on a fairly regular basis.

Don't want to seem to rude, but I seen this and stopped reading.

Deuchar and co pissed all over the manky mob this afternoon so we'll get a little peace from them for a bit.

Living within your means

2nd division next year for you ya fud.

It makes me laugh thjaty the like of Blue slags off East Fife for celebrating the past and in the sdamr breath goes on abouyt The Ring Wraiths wining at Bayern for a few minutes way back in ther 80's.

I read the start of this post, and although if you look at the concept it seems to make sense; 2 sets of fans add them together = 1 bigger set of fans, just because you have bigger crowds does not necessarily mean you have a more stable club, we can look at rangers to see that. Its all about the management of the club, both at the playing level and at board level. There have been cup games and derby games where i have seen 1000+ fans in the home end so clearly the potential is there without merging. But both east fife and rovers have made poor choices in recent years with regards to chairmen and managers, which in my opinion have halted the progress of both clubs.
If i'm being honest i think had it not been for the claude anelka era at the rovers, and the subsequent time to rebuild from the mess he left them then in, they would be challengers for division 1, if not promoted, as they are imo a div1/spl team. As for ourselves, i think that the Derrick Brown era, buscuit tin mentality and fan boycotts etc, will no doubt have held us back.As pointed out by another poster, although wullie gray's involvement was fleeting, it gave us the kick-start we needed to get out of the 3rd division. Talk of mergers to get a quick fix is easy, however with the wrong leadership it can just give you the same problems we have faced before.