East Fife are planning to replace the current playing surface at Bayview with an artificial one.SNS Group
East Fife want to rip up the grass pitch at Bayview Stadium and replace it with an artificial surface in time for next season.

The ambitious League One club, who confirmed former Scotland defender Gary Naysmith as their new manager on Wednesday, are pressing ahead with plans for a synthetic playing surface and say it could potentially be in place for the start of the 2014/15 league campaign.

The pitch at Bayview is renowned as one of the better ones in the lower leagues but the board at Bayview are willing to fork out the £300,000-plus needed to replace it after weighing up the options.

Chairman Lee Murray told Courier Sport: “We’re working hard at that, the reason being that other clubs are getting a jump on us basically.

“They are able to invest more money in their club and into their playing staff that we can’t do because we don’t have that facility.

“We are working on it and we hope we can maybe get it in place for the start of next season. We’ve started the process so with a wee bit of luck it will be next season, if not the season after.

“When I first came in I thought football should be played on grass but when you measure it up and look at the finances it doesn’t make any sense to not look at it at least and try our best to get it.

“We’re trying to raise funding and the cut off on any decision will likely be late April beginning of May because it takes six weeks from start to finish.

“We would need to start it the minute the season finishes.”

The Methil outfit are already using crowd-funding to try and finance developments at the ground, with the club hoping to raise enough cash to build a new club shop, a café/restaurant and a 750-capacity stand

As much as I prefer to watch football on grass it makes sense for us to switch. Kirkland High School is the only decent place around here to play so I have no doubt that Bayview could be rented out to the local community to use. We would quickly recoup the £300k cost.

Really hope not

Good stuff! It will generate much needed income and almost guarantee us a game during winter.

I can see why people would be against it but having played on this surface I thought it was actually surprisingly good.

No,no please no!

Install an artificial pitch with facilities over the back wall but keep the main pitch for East Fife FC only! We have one of the best pitches in the country let's keep it that way.

It would solve all the problems of paying out to train places like Glenrothes, and our matches would only be ever be called off in very extreme conditions, it would also bring in money.

Absolute no-brainer.

Surveys in the Levenmouth area have shown there are a lot of ex hippies mourning for a really good bit grass.

3G

Let me give you the update on the possibility of EF having a 3G pitch, we have as a board looked at both options and the basics are all done to money Unfortunately, to put a new 3G pitch on our current pitch is around 1/2 the price of building a new one, also it would cost around the same again to put in the floodlights, dressing rooms, fencing etc that would be required to make it work so all in all it just doesn't add up. With regards to standard of surface when we put it down next season or the season after it will be the best available which is currently FIFA 2, also it must be stated that 3G pitches are now played in the champions league.

With regards to other clubs the likes of Stenhousemuir, Forfar, Alloa, Airdire, Queen of the South, Falkirk, Hamilton etc have all now got 3G and are getting huge benefits from it community engagement & financial (both in & out). When we get this surface we will get these massive benefits and we will no longer be chasing these teams financially which is crazy considering apart from Falkirk we have a bigger support. I totally understand the argument about playing on grass but when you look at all the benefits I would not be doing my job as chairman correctly if we didn't at least look at all the possibilities.

Hope this explains the clubs thoughts on this subject.


Lee

Interested to know where the £300,000 capital investment will come from for this project.

LEE , can you tell me the benefits the likes of Stenhousemuir, Forfar, Alloa, Airdire, Queen of the South, Falkirk, Hamilton etc . have with these pitches ? show me ?

Cost of 3G

We are applying for grant funding for the pitch same as every other club has done, via sportScotland etc and hope we are succesful. So we are not spending the clubs money or borrowing what we don't have.


Hope that answers your question, with regards to how much do other clubs benefit I can't give you exact numbers but I know some clubs I have visited lately are turning over 150k per season. These other clubs are getting this income that we aren't and eventually we will fall behind. Hope that helps you understand the rational?


Lee

Thanks Lee.

I'm not a fan of plastic pitches and wish we could install it on the land around the stadium rather than the main pitch, but I agree we have do what we have to do to keep us competitive. And there is no reason why we can't be at Falkirk's level again, traditionally one of our peers not our superior!

Any idea what the costs would be in creating a standing section in the main stand?

This would be a crowd (funding) pleaser for sure.

Lee. You are doing your job. That is accepted I agree on the financial no brainer. However I think that you miss one key factor. What does the football department say. I will tell you, they too understand the financial aspect but would rather have grass. If only I could win the lottery your problems would be solved.

Looking forward to getting 3G at NB as the signal at the moment on my mobile is utter shite!

I’m not surprised this proposal is being put forward as economically there’s sense in it, and we do have some competitive disadvantage just now. However, the most important thing is the football – or since we’re talking in business terms – the product.

This proposal is the equivalent of Fife Flyers melting the ice and donning roller skates on a Saturday night so that they can better rent out the floor space through the week. That would be considered sacrilege and not tolerated because it changes the product. In my view, having watched many games on even the latest plastic pitches and had a decent kick-about on one of them as well, these surfaces absolutely do change the product – it’s like watching a poor photocopy of a football match – some kind of practice game - instead of the real thing, and it’s one of the reasons I’ve stopped going to away matches as many of them take place on these surfaces. Though I appreciate however that some people seem not to see any difference which puzzles me a bit but I do of course respect their view.

I do like that the Board are looking at all sorts of ways of taking the Club forward and I applaud much of what is happening. The re-invigoration of East Fife is more than welcome and certainly overdue. Naturally, the business side of things is vital but, as we know, football is a special type of business so where do we stop? Cardiff City’s owner changes the colour of their strips to make more money, Hull City’s owner wants to change the name of the team to make more money - is nothing untouchable in the name of the filthy lucre?

The problem I have with the business approach here is that, like so many businesses and indeed governments these days, it’s short-termist. Once all teams change to plastic pitches, no Club is any better off. We’ve got all the extra and distracting hassle of operating a side-business, while all the extra money brought in gets paid back out to maverick players anyway and we’re back to square one, except we’re watching football on plastic instead of grass – how is that progress?

Lee – you say you’re doing your job as Chairman by at least looking into this, and I absolutely agree with and understand that. I would only ask you to keep in your thoughts the question of whether it’s your job to take football as we know it away from East Fife possibly for evermore. Do you want to be the man who done that?

Another thought - what happens if we spend 300 grand on this and then the league outlaws these pitches as happened before?

I spare a thought today for the guys who, in the past and now, have done such an amazing, award-winning job in giving us one of the best playing surfaces in the country – a fact which, significantly, is mentioned frequently by players as a reason why they signed for East Fife – and I hope that they’ll do this for years to come.

I hope we find a way forward that doesn’t include this particular step, because for me, the football is the important thing. And we sacrifice that at our peril.

Save Football At Bayview!

Platini does alright.

What I said was it was one reason - one of several. And I stand by my point that it's a different product. If EF played hockey in away games I wouldn't go to that either. But if you feel it makes little or no difference I respect that. In case you think I'm just an excuse-making away-match lightweight though, I'm not (details available on request).

Oh, and for the record, much of my career has been spent in change-management roles. Change paid for my house. But football's a special type of business.

This claim about 'income from the community' and 'lack of facilities' has to be seriously looked at.

Some evenings, I drive past Kirkland's astro pitches and they are full and on others they are empty. There is probably a level of demand from local amateur teams Mon-Thurs through the winter months when they require training facilities, however, it must be noted that the number of local amateur teams from Levenmouth is at an all-time low and Fife's amateur leagues are contracting in size. We must also remember that the times that amateur teams will wish to book are probably the same times that East Fife and their junior teams would be using the pitch for their own training.

Admittedly, Kirkland High's services will change when they merge with Buckhaven High, but I would hope the new high school still retains community facilities. Kennoway Primary also offers astroturf surfaces.

I think there'd be an initial demand for community use but, ultimately, teams would weigh up the costs against the facilities at Kennoway/Kirkland. I believe the real shortfall in community facilities is in the shape of indoor 5-a-side halls, and they're not allowed in the SPFL.

Why don't big clubs have it? Many do on the continent, Champions League matches and World Cup qualifiers have been played on them as well as domestic matches. Bigger clubs have far more resources also and can afford to maintain a grass pitch, unlike clubs like EF or Alloa or Stenny with limited income.

Attitudes are thoroughly dated towards synthetic surfaces, infact a 5 year survey in America based on almost 800 college football matches with a 50/50 split showed that turf was safer than natural grass. It involves the community, the maintenance costs are smaller, it saves the club a fortune hiring pitches, the community can use it, it can be provide another stream of income, it while not bulletproof against all weather conditions also reduces postponements. There is simply no realistic argument for keeping it for a club of this size, and to be honest I've seen some absolutely dreadful grass pitches in the lower leagues and juniors that a modern artificial pitch would put to shame. Look at Cowden's mud heap for one that is a postponement minefield.

I would like to question the assumption that artificial pitches are a "good thing" because games do not get postponed.
I've seen too many games on plastic pitches in bad weather that were not worth watching because it was so wet or it was blowing a gale or the players were frozen stiff. Without the plastic pitch, the game would have been postponed - rightly - because the weather made football impossible. But these games now go ahead and are dire.
It's back to what KoTS has said about "the product". Put in a plastic pitch and your game will go ahead in bad weather, but it will not be football you end up watching. What's more important - the football, or the corporate lunches?
If generating revenue is at the heart of this, put the plastic pitch where the training pitch is and leave Bayview as grass. Some of the other clubs who have switched to plastic have done so because their pitch was a mess e.g. Falkirk, a quagmire. Our pitch is one of the best in the country. Please keep it.

Grass pitch, used for 18 league games a year a few cup games 10 or so reserve games and you can't train or use it except match days.
Plastic pitch, potential use 365 days a year for and you can train on it.
Whether you prefer grass pitches or not the financial benefits and use of the ground is a compelling argument. As is the fact the cafe/bar shop would be used by participants using facilities.

Is the community going to want to book a pitch at New Bayview on a windswept evening or a pitch at Kirkland/Kennoway where there is at least some shelter from housing?

I think every amateur team probably wants that prime 7-9 pm window Mon-Thurs for training, we are talking about 8 hours potential rental income. A number of local amateur teams already have their own floodlights above their grass pitches and they seem quite happy.

Bayview has always been one of the best surfaces in Scotland, it seems silly to destroy this reputation.

What would be wiser is for East Fife to take a lead in promoting the idea of summer football towards the SPFL. I'd far rather see the club as a pioneer of change for Scottish football. Laying astroturf is an admission that the club is no better than a sheep.

We should think about a different type of surface, like sand. There is a plentiful supply nearby, and it would provide something a bit different from the other teams in the league.

Why are people still talking about a pitch over the back. lee has already said this would cost in excess of double what it is costing to do it in Bayview. Do you lot have a spare £700,000 your willing to throw at an AstroTurf in order to keep the hallowed turf. I think not. The idea to install it and bring ourself financially up with seemingly better clubs is a no brainer and with our larger, increasing attendances we can surely surpass them?

Or we could keep the turf, stay behind financially and be happy as a sub standard third / fourth tier team....

Kirkland High School is booked everyday of the week FACT

Open 5 till 10

£26 an hour

If you've played on Surfaces such as Dunfermline High School where a lot of Saturday and Sunday teams play you'll know its actually better than grass and I would say most if not every player I've played beside prefers it.

It's not a strong opinion. Just curious as to why people wouldn't want a financial boost for the club when we finally have people willing us on to make BIG changes round the club and the community.

Correct & Kirkland s Astro is one of the poorer surfaces.

It would seem that fan is an organiser, accountant, planner and builder in this analysis. Pity he is anonymous I'm sure the club would benefit from these multi tasking skills.

Of interest, how many pitches are consistently better than that at New Bayview? East Fife's must be one of the best five in the country.

Given the team's standings over recent season, might it be worth installing a pitch not conducive to passing football? Rocket has made an error above, papier mache is a better option, pitch maintenance could be carried out be the local schoolchildren at Aberhill. I suggest Lee Murray hires Neil Buchanan to deliver their training.

The 'football is meant to be played on grass' argument is a funny one.

At one point 'football was meant to be played by 300 people kicking an inflated pigs bladder from one end of a village to the other'

Football was meant to be played with square wooden goalposts, football was meant to be played with goalkeepers that could pick up passbacks, football was meant to be played with no, and then varying types of offside rule, football was meant to be played with no subs, football was meant to be played with three subs.

Obviously none of this is true, because things adapt, change and move on to suit the era we live in.

It's strange that playing on a huge variety of surfaces, from the immaculate to the farcical is somehow considered the best option by those who see themselves as purists. The artificial surfaces we see at some clubs now are quite literally level playing fields.

'if everyone has one then nobody actually benefits' is actually the most ridiculous argument I've heard yet too. Is it better that everyone is skint, unable to pay bills, improve facilities and youth development? In what way would that harm the game in this country because I'm completely stumped at that.

East fife lead the way with half grass and half 3G surface keeps everybody happy. Costs half of the price and still allows half the pitch to be rented out. The spare money could be used to put towards a cardboard replica of the power station as if you look at the stats we were better with it. I think it intimidated visiting teams.

Why don't the top clubs use it? Well in the SPL, and all of the English leagues down to the Conference, it's banned. Accies had to lift theirs when they got to the SPL. Despite this, they've lifted the grass again and installed another artificial surface this season. Hope we're factoring in these costs too

^ Sorry, I think I gave duff information there.

There's a new set of rules for the SPFL. I don't see any distinction for the top league in the part about artificial surfaces. It appears artificial surfaces are allowed, provided they meet FIFA 2 star standard and are approved by the SPFL Board. If we got one, it looks like we'd be good to compete in the Champions League as well, although, we'd have to go back to grass if UEFA ever wanted to play the Champions League Final in Methil.

Having spent some time today reading around the issue, I'm all in favour.

Defo need 3g ma phone signal is terrible doon the new bayview!