Away From The Numbers
All good things come to an end. Or so they say. AFTN has been around since 1989, first as a fanzine and then making the jump to a website and forum in 2003. We've been through the many ups and down at East Fife in those 12 years but policing the forum has become a giant pain in the ass in recent years. As such, we made the decision not to renew it when it expired.
The forum is no more and will remain as a locked archive until it is eventually deleted by the host. We're looking in to try to save some of the content as an archive.
This is not the end of AFTN though. The site will continue and will be revamped and return in its full glory for the start of the 2016/17 season. Maybe even sooner. There will be a comment sections and possibly even a new, registered forum. Check our Twitter (@aftnwebsite) for all the latest info and we'll also post in on the EFFC memories Facebook page.
Until then, have a last browse here, thanks for all your support over the years, and 'Mon the Fife.
GoF
His statement blames the majority shareholders for not supporting him.
I can't copy it for some reason but it's on the club Twitter account.
Found it.
Dear EFFC Supporters,
This morning I am resigning my position as Chairman of East Fife FC.
When I joined the club just over a year ago, I was told I would be able to take the club forward in a direction which I thought was a vision shared by all of the shareholders and you, the supporters.
Our ultimate ambition was to put East Fife at the heart of the community and achieve top flight football within 10 years. However, it became apparent that the majority shareholders did not share this same vision and we had been in negotiations for a number of months to resolve this issue.
I had brought a team of individuals to the table who were willing to invest significant sums, time and energy into the club. However, the current owners were unwilling to sell their stake.
When we proposed other solutions, the majority shareholders continually stalled on negotiations and refused to commit any funds to the club
– a position which makes it almost impossible to bring in money from other sources which undermines our ability to take East Fife and the community
forward.
In the last week, the majority shareholders have taken what I see as a step backwards. This has made our position untenable and we are absolutely devastated it has come to this.
I very much appreciate the fantastic support the fans, directors and wider community have given me and I will never forget my time as chairman ‐ it has been truly life changing.
I will always be an East Fife supporter and wish East Fife FC the very best of luck in the future.
Regards
Lee Murray
#MONTHEFIFE
RIP East Fife FC
oh dear.
A real, real pity.
Lee was an open chairman who embraced the likes of social media and really seemed to be taking the club forward (despite our on-pitch issues last season).
Maybe it's time for those who Lee claims were difficult to work with the come out and give us their vision for the future!!
For the people that aren't "in the know" Please name and shame these arseholes that are strangling this club.
What makes the board think that the fans will keep turning up to games when there is no future or no ambitions. Wish this had all come out in the summer rather than just as the season starts!
yeah...Samantha Twigg for chairperson!
"In the last week, the majority shareholders have taken what I see as a step backwards. "
Any idea what this relates to?
Is this in response to the Neil Rankine case that the SFA raised on August 8th?
Or perhaps the ground development work that the board have been working on?
It's clear that the majority shareholders valuation has not been met...... but I wonder why they hold the valuation that they do. Land value for a supermarket or Samsung Heavy Industries expansion?
Hunners of questions but now no-one to answer them.
What is going on at the club ? Chairman who certainly was trying his best to make things happen not always making the right decision but all with good intentions trying to bring innovative ideas.
Who is decision making there ? Looks like this is the start of not a new era but low point in clubs history about to start
It was said at the meeting last week that the Trust may be required sometime in the future, didn't think it would be this bloody soon!
If they won't sell, is there another way of getting to a position where these guys are not the majority shareholders.
If they are not voting in the best interests of the company (and the other shareholders) is there a way they can be forced to part with their shares?
Any experts on company law out there.
It wouldn`t surprise me if Rankine put in another puppet! Derrick Brown anyone?
This is devastating news for East Fife Football Club and looks to me that Rankine, Twigg and Johnston want to kill us off.
This club means so much to a lot of people and we must not allow that to happen.
Dear EFFC Supporters,
This morning I am resigning my position as Chairman of East Fife FC.
When I joined the club just over a year ago, I was told I would be able to take the club forward in a direction which I thought was a vision shared by all of the shareholders and you, the supporters.
Our ultimate ambition was to put East Fife at the heart of the community and achieve top flight football within 10 years. However, it became apparent that the majority shareholders did not share this same vision and we had been in negotiations for a number of months to resolve this issue.
I had brought a team of individuals to the table who were willing to invest significant sums, time and energy into the club. However, the current owners were unwilling to sell their stake.
When we proposed other solutions, the majority shareholders continually stalled on negotiations and refused to commit any funds to the club
– a position which makes it almost impossible to bring in money from other sources which undermines our ability to take East Fife and the community
forward.
In the last week, the majority shareholders have taken what I see as a step backwards. This has made our position untenable and we are absolutely devastated it has come to this.
I very much appreciate the fantastic support the fans, directors and wider community have given me and I will never forget my time as chairman ‐ it has been truly life changing.
I will always be an East Fife supporter and wish East Fife FC the very best of luck in the future.
Regards
Lee Murray
#MONTHEFIFE
Lee.
Please reconsider. You can turn this around. The majority shareholders you obviously know well and with further negotiations maybe they will come round??
The club needs stability and a change of chairman after only one year is not beneficial to EFFC.
Wullie Gray perhaps
The gloves should now come off.
The Trust, SC and all supporters should come together and start a campaign to rid East Fife of the Twiggs and Rankine. For too long, I feel we have been compliant and complacent.
We should rock the boat. Pester the blazers.
Fan power that's the way ahead make a stand
Makes power holders face upto the fans and get answers .
I'm sure this is all purely financial greed .
Who let these people faceless people invest in the club to such a detrimental effect
The Trust, SC and all supporters should come together and start a campaign to rid East Fife of the Twiggs and Rankine. For too long, I feel we have been compliant and complacent.
We should rock the boat. Pester the blazers.
Mr Stevenson is now acting Chairman according to radio.
I really don't think that we should take this lying down.
We've fought hard for our club before.
The Trust tried to buy the shares from the Twigg/Johnston camp before Brooke Mileson passed away. 250k was knocked back.
I truly fear for the club now.
Lorraine Twigg owns 69582 shares, Samantha Twigg 33166. The next biggest shareholding goes to a "Rodger" family who own 30450. The trust only own just over 5000.... This is a worrying time ahead for the club. As fans we must do something about it.
I fear the worst can i ask who is still part of the board at Bayview? can we ever buy shares from Mr.Rankin who owns livingstone and has interest for us and Dumbarton FC those interest for us and Dumbarton shouldnt be allowed i for one hope the SFA take the matter seriously and tell Mr Rankin to give up his interest and shares in our club so this matter goes away.
when i first read this story online that lee has resigned i thought it was purely because we have been relegated am gutted he has left the club had so much ideas that he had to make east fife a community club and make our club good.
1.Will they be a replacement chairman or can Stevenson do the job?
2.what is our vision now?
3.our target is it to finish in play-offs or higher?
4.will the crowdfunding scheme still on the clubs plan? before i invest my money.
or alternative can it become another club owned by the fans?
I hope this can be sorted out at the club and that they is a statement from the club on this issue and what is the future for East Fife FC in the future ahead.
Our club is going to the wall. We cannot let this happen. #FifeForever
Any idea what this relates to?
Is this in response to the Neil Rankine case that the SFA raised on August 8th?
Or perhaps the ground development work that the board have been working on?
It\'s clear that the majority shareholders valuation has not been met...... but I wonder why they hold the valuation that they do. Land value for a supermarket or Samsung Heavy Industries expansion?
Hunners of questions but now no-one to answer them.
maybe bayview is a great place for sea bird photography
http://myfifetoday.co.uk/?p=1129
The East Fife FC Board, very reluctantly, accepted the resignation of Lee Murray this morning. Lee has published his reasons which we fully respect. The rest of the Board has remained in place and elected Jim Stevenson as interim Chairman until further notice.
The Board thanks Lee for all his efforts, energy and hard work on behalf of the Club and wishes him well for the future. The door is always open for Lee.
Jim Stevenson,
Interim Chairman.
Is that it???????????
this could be a short term replacement according to that news i don't know but if we do return to League one football it could be a good replacement you never know its only August anything can happen from now until the end of the season all we can is to support the club.
but what about the crowdfunding scheme that was set-up by Lee will that still carry on as normal and my money when i do invest at some point go towards east fife having a club shop? cafe? and new stand? thats what i want to know before commit myself to put money across.
Lee was one of the best things that happened to the club for a few years.even though I did not see eye to eye with him, the club is going to miss his ambitions. Welcome Jim to your new position.
Can somebody kindly maybe explain this to me a bit clearer.
If Rankin is the majority shareholder or whatever, then how come Lee and the others he got involved 'took over' the club from Sid Collumbine last season?
Basically I can't get my head around how Lee came to be club chairman when somebody else, or even two or three people, are in the background with the controlling interest.
This isn't a dig at anybody involved past, present or future at East Fife - I'm just a bit puzzled by the mechanics of it all.
A sad day for East Fife, I don\'t blame lee for walking why would you waste your time trying to improve something only to be knocked down. Best we can hope for is the sfa force Rankine to sell his interest in the club. If he remains at the helm I really do fear the worst. I just hope Lee is trying to call their bluff, but it looks like greed has won the day. These people have no interest in East Fife and im sure a lot of fans will lose interest when they can only see things going backwards.
If Rankin is the majority shareholder or whatever, then how come Lee and the others he got involved \'took over\' the club from Sid Collumbine last season?
Basically I can\'t get my head around how Lee came to be club chairman when somebody else, or even two or three people, are in the background with the controlling interest.
This isn\'t a dig at anybody involved past, present or future at East Fife - I\'m just a bit puzzled by the mechanics of it all.
The reality is that there was no takeover. Just smoke and mirrors. No doubt all will become clear in due course.
To Rankine, Twigg or whoever it is that owns all these shares that is killing club...
Come out from your hiding place you fucking cowards and face the music !
Anyone know who the "Rodger" family are??!!
Anyone know who the "Rodger" family are??!!
Think they were involved in shipping molasses with the Corleones before double-crossing them and taking up with Bruno Tattaglia and his mob. Met Tattaglia through Virgil Sollozzo and figured they could better gain power by joining forces, getting into drug-trafficking and heaping the pressure on Don Vito while he was still against getting involved in such things.
Or are they the blokes with the chip shop somewhere around Methil or Buckhind - I get mixed up.
Why is everyone taking what Murray says as gospel.two sides to every story.?Not long ago the pub he leased in Kirkcaldy went tits
Anyone know who the \\\"Rodger\\\" family are??!!
Think they were involved in shipping molasses with the Corleones before double-crossing them and taking up with Bruno Tattaglia and his mob. Met Tattaglia through Virgil Sollozzo and figured they could better gain power by joining forces, getting into drug-trafficking and heaping the pressure on Don Vito while he was still against getting involved in such things.
Or are they the blokes with the chip shop somewhere around Methil or Buckhind - I get mixed up.
Where a you getta your information a from?
As chairman lee will have committed the club to a number of financial arrangements for the season ahead. I hope he has left wit the club able to fulfill these in his absence.
Did anyone involved in the supposed takeover actually part with any cash?
No one who has the business sense to have made enough money would come near East Fife with a view to investing substantial money. There have been windows of opportinity in recent years when there would have been exciting times ahead but the unknowns are too great. Maybe there is a non football agends?
my best wishes to Lee. Total respect
Welcome to the latest episode of the East Fife soap opera. One that will continue until there is a change in ownership. Unless you know someone with pots of money, that will be the greatest fight the Club has ever faced.
It appears the Club is owned by 2 major shareholders who will want to realise their investment at some point. Everyone who has been the Chairman of the Club in recent years have been effectively renting the Club from the major shareholders with their consent. You would only improve a house if you owned it. That looked to be the ambitions of Lee Murray to improve the facilities at Bayview and possibly why today's events occurred.
How this is changed, I am not sure. The SC and Trust to come together and pool resources? I do not think the remaining board can do or say a great deal as they can find themselves turfed out of the rental and we need East Fife minded people there. There is quite a bit still to be known and as Jar has said, there will be 2 sides to the story. Would make a good story for a good journalist to bring some clarity.
Many thanks Lee, hope you and the revolution are back soon.
You don't think he's maybe walked as there are no trips to Ibrox this season for him and his Hun pals to lord it up in the Blue Room? And no big hospitality days at Bayview this season when The Rangers and The Pars come calling?
I am sad to see Lee go. He was a breath of fresh air at the club with his openness and approachability.
From what he has said, this takes the club back years instead of the plans they had to move forward.
But....
It should also be noted that whilst Lee had all these grand plans, what did he actually deliver? It would appear nothing and we went backwards in footballing terms.
It's all well and good to have these grand plans, we all do, but he did not achieve any of them apart from raise money for a club shop, that was frankly the least of our problems.
Now, it may be that those behind the scenes were the reason that he couldn't achieve anything but there has also been an element of false hope and promises being put forward that then couldn't be backed up.
We all bought into a hype that, for whatever reasons, was no able to be delivered.
Am I reading too much into it, or is there any chance the majority shareholders want to keep their shares for a big fat wad of cash if we sell the land at Bayview?
Wouldn't surprise me Big Fifer... As they're certainly not in it for EF anyway!!
I see that Rankine has said he's going to sell his shares in Livingston with the goings on there just now.
Good question which should be put to those involved who seemed to talk a good game but......
From what he has said, this takes the club back years instead of the plans they had to move forward.
But....
It should also be noted that whilst Lee had all these grand plans, what did he actually deliver? It would appear nothing and we went backwards in footballing terms.
It\'s all well and good to have these grand plans, we all do, but he did not achieve any of them apart from raise money for a club shop, that was frankly the least of our problems.
Now, it may be that those behind the scenes were the reason that he couldn\'t achieve anything but there has also been an element of false hope and promises being put forward that then couldn\'t be backed up.
We all bought into a hype that, for whatever reasons, was no able to be delivered.
Great post. Lots of talk and no action. We were fed lines of the Rankine / Twigg era being over and the paperwork simply needing completion for the formal takeover. Appears that no cash was invested. Anyone can make promises and leave them unfulfilled. As GoF said we all went along with the fur coat and nae knickers talk in hope. Liked Mr Murrays approach and found this refreshing despite achieving little. He's now gone. We were here long before him and, well are clearly here long after. The future must now be about getting our club back and moving to fan ownership, however this is achieved.
James, that is rather unfair. There are reasons, nothing to do with Rangers.
James, that is rather unfair. There are reasons, nothing to do with Rangers.
James, that is rather unfair. There are reasons, nothing to do with Rangers.
It was said last season by some that he would not be here next season after the Rangers were no longer here.
A blaim that fuckin peedo fer putting the stadium on land,which he knew full well,would be worth a fortune in years to come.Rankin un co will kill the club,and then fuck off with a load a cash in there hip pockets.I wonder if we would of been in this postion ,if we had moved to windygates or where ever it was.Rankin un Twigg,in my view,are here till the end,and i canny see what any ov us can do about it.
well said and could well be true it doesnt look like anyone will sell and they will be here until the end i blame Julian Danskin and how he sold the club after that it has all came back to hunt us regarding shareholders and moved east fife and the club to a one stand stadium to the docks after selling off the old ground and we wont see any of the current shareholders at the games and it has been a mystery from day one. as murray leaves it has become another board reshuffle with the shareholders laughing at us how we have to suffer league two football now its a case to support the team on the park than off it.
Will they ever sell their shares? Mr.Rankine has a hearing in September and why or what has made him have an interest in us and dumbarton still. Livi on the hand have entered a transfer embargo and the club could well go bust at the end of the season and enter league two for a third time in their history. Rankine also says East Fife FC nearly went out of business in 2000 and paid the money off and sold Dumbarton FC in 2008.
we should go to Hampden on the day of the Hearing SFA vs Mr Rankine and protest with livi to fight for our club and boo Mr Rankine and his tinted glass that painted on hold a big banner saying you are not welcome, leave our club #monthefife on it.
Today's courier sheds some more light on the matter.
Not disagreeing with the way mr Murray tells things but there is another way to look at it.
Someone wants to buy your company but hasn't stumped up the money to do so. Instead they want to run the company you own the way they see fit - building a hotel, redeveloping the ground for example,. This no doubt makes you nervous - how can these grand plans be funded yet the purchase of the shares cannot? And where does the money from the hotel go? What do you do - you are willing to sell but the buyer won't buy. You can kick lee Murray out ..... Or perhaps bring someone onto the board to look after your interests until they are sold. Seems reasonable to me.
If Lee had stumped up the cash and bought the shares in the first place before embarking on this adventure we would not be in the situation we are in now.
It is regretable that Lee Murray has resigned but it would be wrong, I think, to once again pillory the major shareholders whose position seems fairly clear. They came into the club some years ago when I was Chairman and their investment was critical in stabilising the club financially after the Julian Danskin episode.
They were never in for the very long run and it is not surprising that they would now be willing to sell to a responsible bidder who would have the club's interests at heart. They thought they had achieved this last year but that doesn't seem to have worked out.
There has been talk of the supporters buying the club. The idea of getting the club into supporters/community ownership is a good one which I believe the major shareholders would support. That may be the best way forward for everyone but it will need a concerted effort and a sensible offer. This approach is being followed at other clubs and there seems no reason why it couldn't work here too.
Lee Murray. Nothing worth doing is ever easy. You talk of community, na, that is a sound bite community was sales development, which is fine but don't play on it. Be honest the job was too big for you, it's got difficult you have other business interests and EFFC is in danger of effecting you in other ways. Now what about our young manager ..... You have now pulled the carpet out from under him. Who has he to turn to? A blazer an invisible owner.... He has had it Mark my words. So in reality we are up shit creek. I would thank you for you efforts and energy you gave some new ideas and a wee bit of hope. But what now.... Walk away.... Relegated..... I think you should reconsider, and focus on supporting Gary with whatever deals, resource, etc which you can get out of the fuckwit owners. Think about it
Bruce - what kind of return are they looking for?
I'd suggest that a generous price be their original sum plus an adjustment for inflation.
That would be an amazing return given that most investors in a football club get 0 back.
Perhaps this is too generous an offer.
Can anyone dig out what the amount paid was?
Think BT is spot on.
I think it was in the back of many minds that as soon as Rangers were gone so would Lee!
Prove us wrong lee, Help us become the club we can be! Times get tough we need to stick together. With you and our fans we CAN do it.
Please reconsider. Because tbh, we are well and truly fucked.
They were never in for the very long run and it is not surprising that they would now be willing to sell to a responsible bidder who would have the club\\\'s interests at heart. They thought they had achieved this last year but that doesn\\\'t seem to have worked out.
There has been talk of the supporters buying the club. The idea of getting the club into supporters/community ownership is a good one which I believe the major shareholders would support. That may be the best way forward for everyone but it will need a concerted effort and a sensible offer. This approach is being followed at other clubs and there seems no reason why it couldn\\\'t work here too.
If the majority shareholders support fans/community ownership, why don't they come out and say so Bruce? The trouble we fans have with all this, is that we do not know much at all about the majority shareholders thoughts, as they never comment on anything, as far as I am aware. If they truly would support fans/community ownership, then why don't they make an offer of sale to the fans via the Trust? The fans do not know how much money is involved in achieving this, so give us a figure. We can then at least see if it is affordable to pursue this, instead of dreaming about it.
To the fans - If you truly want fan ownership - JOIN THE TRUST!
They were never in for the very long run and it is not surprising that they would now be willing to sell to a responsible bidder who would have the club\\\\\\\'s interests at heart. They thought they had achieved this last year but that doesn\\\\\\\'t seem to have worked out.
There has been talk of the supporters buying the club. The idea of getting the club into supporters/community ownership is a good one which I believe the major shareholders would support. That may be the best way forward for everyone but it will need a concerted effort and a sensible offer. This approach is being followed at other clubs and there seems no reason why it couldn\\\\\\\'t work here too.
If the majority shareholders support fans/community ownership, why don\'t they come out and say so Bruce? The trouble we fans have with all this, is that we do not know much at all about the majority shareholders thoughts, as they never comment on anything, as far as I am aware. If they truly would support fans/community ownership, then why don\'t they make an offer of sale to the fans via the Trust? The fans do not know how much money is involved in achieving this, so give us a figure. We can then at least see if it is affordable to pursue this, instead of dreaming about it.
To the fans - If you truly want fan ownership - JOIN THE TRUST!
Thanks for this. You can take it that I know the views of the major shareholders and am able to speak for them in this matter. They would be very happy with supporter/community ownership. This is the way forward at many clubs and no reason why East Fife shouldn't be likewise. I can't quote figures since there would no doubt be detailed discussions and negotiations involved over such a sale at a price that's fair all round. But the possibiity is there and supporters and other community interests need to think about how best to approach this.
The Johnstone/Twigg/Rankine's own 102748 shares out of 198990, which is 52% of all shares in the club. It is reported in the clubs annual returns that the "aggregate nominal value" of all the clubs shares is worth around 50k.
My biggest worry, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, is the matter of the land that Bayview is built on. Rankine will know fine well the value of this and it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to capitalise on this.
I think Lee Murray has pulled the wool over our eyes, promised a lot, delivered little. He never had the money to buy the club but knew with Rangers and Dunfermline in the league he would get 12 months income to play around with. That money has well and truly gone and he went to shareholders to ask for more but rightly they declined. The worry for us all is how much has he overspent on this years playing budget? It's only a matter of time before we are unable to pay wages and he has realised this and jumped from a sinking ship. Immediate action is required if we are to survive. #Monthefife
The club is a shambles. Who will be the next puppet on a string? Lee Murray is full of shit! Takeover my arse. The majority shareholders clearly couldn't give a Fuck about the club and have no ambition taking the club forward. My Dad has never been back to an East Fife match since Archibald got the punt and has always told me I'm wasting my time supporting that shite, sadly he was right. We are fucked! I will boycott Bayview until we have further info on what the clubs vision for the future is. Certainly not wasting anymore time and money supporting a club who's owners are happy to see u's rot in bottom leagues. Wonder how long it will be before the ground is sold and it will be bye bye EF.....
If the club is f****d,the ground is being sold and you are not coming back does this mean you are finished posting ? I will miss your positive outlook on EF's future.
If the club is f****d,the ground is being sold and you are not coming back does this mean you are finished posting ? I will miss your positive outlook on EF's future.
I am always optimistic about the club's future because everything changes. We got rid of Brown but the new regime didn't work out. Lee Murray came in and it hasn't worked out but it will change again and although neither you nor I know what that change will be there is no reason it cannot be a successful change.
They were never in for the very long run and it is not surprising that they would now be willing to sell to a responsible bidder who would have the club\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s interests at heart. They thought they had achieved this last year but that doesn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t seem to have worked out.
There has been talk of the supporters buying the club. The idea of getting the club into supporters/community ownership is a good one which I believe the major shareholders would support. That may be the best way forward for everyone but it will need a concerted effort and a sensible offer. This approach is being followed at other clubs and there seems no reason why it couldn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t work here too.
If the majority shareholders support fans/community ownership, why don\\\'t they come out and say so Bruce? The trouble we fans have with all this, is that we do not know much at all about the majority shareholders thoughts, as they never comment on anything, as far as I am aware. If they truly would support fans/community ownership, then why don\\\'t they make an offer of sale to the fans via the Trust? The fans do not know how much money is involved in achieving this, so give us a figure. We can then at least see if it is affordable to pursue this, instead of dreaming about it.
To the fans - If you truly want fan ownership - JOIN THE TRUST!
Thanks for this. You can take it that I know the views of the major shareholders and am able to speak for them in this matter. They would be very happy with supporter/community ownership. This is the way forward at many clubs and no reason why East Fife shouldn't be likewise. I can't quote figures since there would no doubt be detailed discussions and negotiations involved over such a sale at a price that's fair all round. But the possibiity is there and supporters and other community interests need to think about how best to approach this.
Bruce. In another post it was claimed the trust offered to buy them out in 2008 and they turned it down. Why?
You should have waited a couple of weeks Eugene. 
They were never in for the very long run and it is not surprising that they would now be willing to sell to a responsible bidder who would have the club\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s interests at heart. They thought they had achieved this last year but that doesn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t seem to have worked out.
There has been talk of the supporters buying the club. The idea of getting the club into supporters/community ownership is a good one which I believe the major shareholders would support. That may be the best way forward for everyone but it will need a concerted effort and a sensible offer. This approach is being followed at other clubs and there seems no reason why it couldn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t work here too.
If the majority shareholders support fans/community ownership, why don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t they come out and say so Bruce? The trouble we fans have with all this, is that we do not know much at all about the majority shareholders thoughts, as they never comment on anything, as far as I am aware. If they truly would support fans/community ownership, then why don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t they make an offer of sale to the fans via the Trust? The fans do not know how much money is involved in achieving this, so give us a figure. We can then at least see if it is affordable to pursue this, instead of dreaming about it.
To the fans - If you truly want fan ownership - JOIN THE TRUST!
Thanks for this. You can take it that I know the views of the major shareholders and am able to speak for them in this matter. They would be very happy with supporter/community ownership. This is the way forward at many clubs and no reason why East Fife shouldn\\\'t be likewise. I can\\\'t quote figures since there would no doubt be detailed discussions and negotiations involved over such a sale at a price that\\\'s fair all round. But the possibiity is there and supporters and other community interests need to think about how best to approach this.
Bruce. In another post it was claimed the trust offered to buy them out in 2008 and they turned it down. Why?
I don't know the answer to that. But in any event that was then and this is now.
Bruce I agree with what your saying and I would like to suggest that as a start everyone who pledged to the Crowd Funding initiative cancels that and pledges to a new fund that can be used to buy the majority of shares. That would be 25K off the bat.
Regarding the land it would be easy to write up a contract stating that the land can belong to the major shareholders and leased back to the club at a reasonable peppercorn rent with a 25 year lease. So the current majority shareholders get to keep the major asset and they basically sell the club which in my opinion has very little value to them.
How can we kick this off.........
Successful? It may change but it's never for the better is it?
Here we are again in the ownership lurch and in the bottom division to boot.
We're a fucking basket case.
Successful? It may change but it's never for the better is it?
Here we are again in the ownership lurch and in the bottom division to boot.
We're a fucking basket case.
Defeatist crap. We chased Brown out of Methil (I say we but I have no idea about your involvement) and if we can show the same collective spirit and resolve we can save our club again. A different kind of fight lies ahead of us this time but we need to stand together and not accept this lamentable state of affairs.
I would be happy for Bruce Black to be chairman. He is a clever guy who comes from Buckhaven originally and is an East Fife supporter.
More importantly he isn't someone who promises things he cant deliver on.
What clubs in scotland are successful and moving forward under supporter/community ownership?
Stirling Albion? They beat us in the Play-off final at Bayview.
Partick Thistle run a 20 week community programme for coaching and way into employment in sports or jobs outside sports.
dont know if Dunfermline, Clyde, Annan, Airdahry and Hamilton are community or owned under supporters ownership.
the jambos set-up is good with supporters committing to pay so much into it each year so that the cash is sort of counted, even tho it aint been paid . I think the fans will take over completely from that wifey in a Cpl o years. Now that is a club that should have been bankrupt long ago but fans saved them.
Interview with Rankine on the Mail Online
Mail Online
‘In 2000, East Fife were close to going out of business and I encouraged a family I did business with in the antiques trade to club together and pay the money off as a nice wee investment.
‘I was wrong about that because they put in £400,000 and now can’t give it away.
‘All I tried to do was help them to keep the club afloat. I have no shares, never have had and never will have any financial interest in East Fife FC.
£400K....Really ?????......Really !!!!! Why would a "family" with no interest in East Fife put 400K into the club. Absolute shite.
No financial interest in east fife !?!?!?........ haven't chairmen Gray and Murray stated that they met with Rankine?
Bruce - you say that the major shareholders are keen to sell and see the club in fan ownership. Sounds great.....but how much are they hoping fans can raise to buy this stake.... at the very most we'd be looking at 20-30K.
The shares were bought in a fire sale and are being sold in a fire sale....... their value is nominal.
So going by the statement they paid 400k for there shares but cannot manage to even "give them away " Today
‘I was wrong about that because they put in £400,000 and now can’t give it away.
‘All I tried to do was help them to keep the club afloat. I have no shares, never have had and never will have any financial interest in East Fife FC.
£400K....Really ?????......Really !!!!! Why would a "family" with no interest in East Fife put 400K into the club. Absolute shite.
No financial interest in east fife !?!?!?........ haven't chairmen Gray and Murray stated that they met with Rankine?
Bruce - you say that the major shareholders are keen to sell and see the club in fan ownership. Sounds great.....but how much are they hoping fans can raise to buy this stake.... at the very most we'd be looking at 20-30K.
The shares were bought in a fire sale and are being sold in a fire sale....... their value is nominal.
There was no "fire sale". That's might have happened without the investment (at full share price). Cost to buy them out now will be for negotiation and could very likely be paid up over a longish period of years. But it will have to be seen as fair all round and I don't think we can expect them to sell at a loss.
He's in a corner,trying to wriggle is way out,by talking the biggest lot a shit since the phrase"were signing the Nade brothers"hit the headlines.Investment!!!!,they'l get there investment alright,when the ground around Bayview is sold.What do you recone its worth?A few million anyway,prob more if they get rid ov the ground and are aloud houses built.Another thing that got me thinking,Why was Hamilton not giving the acting chairman job?is he not vice chairman(might be wrong here ,so soze if i am).Maybe cause he was part ov there little qleek,wi Broon.To close to home un au that.
People have no idea how much the club can be bought for. Such ridiculous random figures being thrown about. Just before last year the supporters direct group representative came to a supporters meeting. Figures were thrown about then. However it was found that in order to purchase every share in East Fife going, at the share price, would cost just shy of £500,000 to buy the whole club and all it's assetts, which it owns.
That way Twigg/Rankine/Johnston can walk away.
None of this 20k rubbish. Can't buy land for that never mind a whole area with the club and all facilities.
That way Twigg/Rankine/Johnston can walk away.
None of this 20k rubbish. Can't buy land for that never mind a whole area with the club and all facilities.
Spot on.
That way Twigg/Rankine/Johnston can walk away.
None of this 20k rubbish. Can't buy land for that never mind a whole area with the club and all facilities.
‘I was wrong about that because they put in £400,000 and now can’t give it away.
‘All I tried to do was help them to keep the club afloat. I have no shares, never have had and never will have any financial interest in East Fife FC.
£400K....Really ?????......Really !!!!! Why would a \"family\" with no interest in East Fife put 400K into the club. Absolute shite.
No financial interest in east fife !?!?!?........ haven\'t chairmen Gray and Murray stated that they met with Rankine?
Bruce - you say that the major shareholders are keen to sell and see the club in fan ownership. Sounds great.....but how much are they hoping fans can raise to buy this stake.... at the very most we\'d be looking at 20-30K.
The shares were bought in a fire sale and are being sold in a fire sale....... their value is nominal.
There was no "fire sale". That's might have happened without the investment (at full share price). Cost to buy them out now will be for negotiation and could very likely be paid up over a longish period of years. But it will have to be seen as fair all round and I don't think we can expect them to sell at a loss.
Bruce - are you saying that they purchased the 102748 shares for 400K?
And why can't they sell at a loss exactly? The investment game means sometimes you lose sometimes you win.
That way Twigg/Rankine/Johnston can walk away.
None of this 20k rubbish. Can't buy land for that never mind a whole area with the club and all facilities.
Scott - 20K is the figure I'm putting on what the fan base can raise. The fan base will not be able to raise the 400K being sought.
I'm also interested to find what the original purchase price was......I doubt they acquired their holding for 400K
Note to Rankine - if you want to buy land, buy land.....don't buy football clubs.
That way Twigg/Rankine/Johnston can walk away.
None of this 20k rubbish. Can\'t buy land for that never mind a whole area with the club and all facilities.
Well said
Finally some sense spoken.
To find out original price go on companies house and for a quid you can download the paperwork you want to know. Your also saying that business deals go bad. Why would you sell something at a loss when you know it is and will be worth more than you paid??
They were never in for the very long run and it is not surprising that they would now be willing to sell to a responsible bidder who would have the club\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s interests at heart. They thought they had achieved this last year but that doesn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t seem to have worked out.
There has been talk of the supporters buying the club. The idea of getting the club into supporters/community ownership is a good one which I believe the major shareholders would support. That may be the best way forward for everyone but it will need a concerted effort and a sensible offer. This approach is being followed at other clubs and there seems no reason why it couldn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t work here too.
If the majority shareholders support fans/community ownership, why don\\\\\\\'t they come out and say so Bruce? The trouble we fans have with all this, is that we do not know much at all about the majority shareholders thoughts, as they never comment on anything, as far as I am aware. If they truly would support fans/community ownership, then why don\\\\\\\'t they make an offer of sale to the fans via the Trust? The fans do not know how much money is involved in achieving this, so give us a figure. We can then at least see if it is affordable to pursue this, instead of dreaming about it.
To the fans - If you truly want fan ownership - JOIN THE TRUST!
Thanks for this. You can take it that I know the views of the major shareholders and am able to speak for them in this matter. They would be very happy with supporter/community ownership. This is the way forward at many clubs and no reason why East Fife shouldn\'t be likewise. I can\'t quote figures since there would no doubt be detailed discussions and negotiations involved over such a sale at a price that\'s fair all round. But the possibiity is there and supporters and other community interests need to think about how best to approach this.
Bruce. In another post it was claimed the trust offered to buy them out in 2008 and they turned it down. Why?
It was knocked back as Collumbine was in talks with them. He then made noises about how great the trust was and wanted to work with us!
Co house records won't show the sum paid.
Why sell something at a loss?.....because valuations change. The purchase was made in the hope that the ground would be sold for houses or a supermarket....... those options no longer look possible......so the value never reached what it was hoped for.
The seller doesn't KNOW the value......they can ASSUME a value...... only the market KNOWs the value.
I suspect the shares were acquired at discount of 75%. That figure about right Bruce?
That way Twigg/Rankine/Johnston can walk away.
None of this 20k rubbish. Can't buy land for that never mind a whole area with the club and all facilities.
As far as Rankine is concerned he obviously wants as much as he can get (as would anyone) and I would suggest he is looking at at least the £4.50 mark therefore the minimum to buy him out would be around £450,000. Where is this going to come from? Now if he holds out till the land is sold we are talking millions which on paper he will be entitled to Half and being the majority shareholder he could vote the way that suits him best.
So really the only way is for the SFa to force him to divest our shares and not the Livingston ones which he is suggesting. BUT we still have the problem of raising the money to buy. Something which Lee seemed to have achieved. Hopefully this is still waiting in the background if circumstances change.
I've not looked on Companies House but will that not just show the amount of money people have paid for shares bought from a share issue by the Club. If there has been a transfer of shares between people is that cost disclosed? Were there not shares being issued as expenses to previous Directors at a point in time, with no cash changing hands?
I'd imagine that the seller of the shares at the time was not in a strong position for negotiation and if the market valued a share at £5 I'd be surprised if Rankine paid £1 each. There are only two parties that know that for sure and neither are likely to show there hand.
The Companies House document tells you the following...
Number of allotted shares: 198990
Aggregate nominal value: 49747.5
Amount paid per share: 0.25
Amount unpaid per share: 0
I'd imagine that the seller of the shares at the time was not in a strong position for negotiation and if the market valued a share at £5 I'd be surprised if Rankine paid £1 each. There are only two parties that know that for sure and neither are likely to show there hand.
You are correct. Between individuals we do not know what is paid. I suspect that Rankin's initial purchase through Twigg for Danskins's shares will have been around £2 or less. The purchase for another 11.000 shares if through the club would have been at the reduced rate of £3. However around this time there were rumours of private sales at knock down prices. Whether Rankine was involved, who knows, but I seem to remember Broon's name being mentioned who we all know was a puppet of Rankine.
I do know that the average price paid to the club from 2002 to 2005 was averaging around £3,30 a share.
And your point is ?
Number of allotted shares: 198990
Aggregate nominal value: 49747.5
Amount paid per share: 0.25
Amount unpaid per share: 0
Nominal value does not represent the price per share. 0.25 was the price in 1903. Now I know why there are so many share holders of 2 an 4 shares. If you were fealing flush you would pay 10/- for 2 or if rich buy 4 for £1
No point just agreeing with post
‘That complaint surprises me,’ he continued. ‘In 2000, East Fife were close to going out of business and I encouraged a family I did business with in the antiques trade to club together and pay the money off as a nice wee investment.
‘I was wrong about that because they put in £400,000 and now can’t give it away.
‘All I tried to do was help them to keep the club afloat. I have no shares, never have had and never will have any financial interest in East Fife FC.
Very interesting interview with Lee in the Courier!!!
By Alan Temple
Lee Murray has resigned as east fife Chairman after just a year at the helm, insisting he has been undermined by the Club’s owners.
Murray, a Fife businessman, replaced Sid Collumbine last summer and was expected to spearhead a full takeover of the Bayview outfit but, after months of talks, Murray has been unable to persuade Lorraine Johnstone and Samantha Twigg to sell their combined 52% majority shareholding in the Club.
The final straw came last week when it was revealed that the owners had decided to invite former chairman Bruce Black back on to the board – a decision Murray believes made his position “untenable”.
He said; “In the last eight weeks, I have felt like things were not going in the right direction and I was going to resign earlier but the board asked me to reconsider.
“I have tried to find a way to progress, and at times I thought a happy medium was possible, but last week the major shareholder gave permission for a former chairman, Bruce Black, to ask for a seat on the board.
“That was solely to look after their interests and immediately makes me think; “What am I supposed to be doing here?” You can’t run the Club with owner’s undermining you. That was the end. They made my position untenable.
“It has become apparent that the current majority shareholders won’t sell their shares without getting silly money.”
Although East Fife suffered relegation to League Two last term, Murray fears much of the progress made by his board off the pitch could now collapse.
He added; ”The owners don’t have their boots on the ground and have not seen the good work done by this board.
“We have pledges from the council to build a 3G pitch that could be lost. We had a potential agreement to build a hotel on the grounds that could be lost
“The Club’s Academy has taken in over 400 kids and achieved “legacy” status from the SFA, the only Club in Fife to have that, since I became chairman. That could fall apart, because the people involved had bought into the vision we were trying to create.”
Murray revealed that a large portion of the East Fife board was ready to resign in solidarity, but he has urged them to stay in place.
Murray’s departure, meanwhile, is expected to have no bearing on the position of player/manager Gary Naysmith.
It was later reported that Jim Stevenson has been elected interim chairman by the remaining board members.
A few points there that we have all possibly theorised in the last few days, Lee has now publicly stated as fact;
i) The owners don't want to sell!!!
ii) The owner's want "silly money" for their shares!!!
and possibly most importantly
iii) Bruce Black would be a "front" for the Rankine/Johnstone/Twigg cartel, whose position if reinstated at Boardroom level at the Club, would be "solely to look after their interests"!!!
Obviously we should be wary of who we are jumping into bed with here!!!
No point just agreeing with post
Sorry JJ. You got in before me. The question was directed at In The Know.
Hear, hear. Very wary.
Bruce Black looks like he is only gonna be a Twigglet?????? Maybe he should decline his invitation to be on the Board for the sake of the Club
Is Bruce's role similar to the one performed a few years back by Mr J Derrick Brown
Hello Bruce
You post on here from time to time, usually at times of crisis or when the ownership of the club comes under scrutiny.
One of the points you have highlighted more than once is that the club was in dire need of a buyer for Danskin's shares in 2000. Correct me if I am wrong, but this appears to be your explanation of why the majority shareholders are not who we would hope they are i. e. people with interest in the club, and a vision for its future. Instead, we have opportunist investors.
From what I can gather, you were involved in finding a buyer for Danskin's shares. I don't doubt it was a very difficult situation, and we were all grateful that the club survived that period of uncertainty.
Now here we are in 2014, and I can't help thinking that East Fife have not moved on an inch since then. Basically, we have gone through the motions during a 14-year charade. The club's existence has been virtually pointless, and will continue to be so as long as it is controlled by people who have no interest in it.
So has it been worth it? Was the Twigg/Johnson deal worth it? It might have seemed so at the time, but I would argue now, 14 years later, that it has crippled us. We survived, but to do what?
There are very few people who know all the various parties and relationships involved in the current impasse, and know the background to how this situation came about.
So my point is: 14 miserable years later, what can you do, Bruce, to resolve this untenable position? I am tempted to refer to it as unfinished business. No club or business can prosper if the majority shareholder has no interest in it. It is not hard to imagine another 14 years of this pointlessness.
One other point: I think you have indicated on this forum that the majority owners paid full price for their holding. They are on record as saying that the shares were purchased at a big discount. From memory, I would say it was 50%, although I would have to check and get back to you. What did you mean by full price?
Regards
Donald
The truth is, Lee got scared of a Lady being on the board. 
\"I encouraged a family I did business with in the antiques trade to club together and pay the money off as a nice wee investment\"
What the hell does this mean? I thought the major shareholders were his partner and her daughter??!!
Something really fishy here?
Just putting this on the second page incase some didn't see it!!!
Very interesting interview with Lee in the Courier!!!
By Alan Temple
Lee Murray has resigned as east fife Chairman after just a year at the helm, insisting he has been undermined by the Club’s owners.
Murray, a Fife businessman, replaced Sid Collumbine last summer and was expected to spearhead a full takeover of the Bayview outfit but, after months of talks, Murray has been unable to persuade Lorraine Johnstone and Samantha Twigg to sell their combined 52% majority shareholding in the Club.
The final straw came last week when it was revealed that the owners had decided to invite former chairman Bruce Black back on to the board – a decision Murray believes made his position “untenable”.
He said; “In the last eight weeks, I have felt like things were not going in the right direction and I was going to resign earlier but the board asked me to reconsider.
“I have tried to find a way to progress, and at times I thought a happy medium was possible, but last week the major shareholder gave permission for a former chairman, Bruce Black, to ask for a seat on the board.
“That was solely to look after their interests and immediately makes me think; “What am I supposed to be doing here?” You can’t run the Club with owner’s undermining you. That was the end. They made my position untenable.
“It has become apparent that the current majority shareholders won’t sell their shares without getting silly money.”
Although East Fife suffered relegation to League Two last term, Murray fears much of the progress made by his board off the pitch could now collapse.
He added; ”The owners don’t have their boots on the ground and have not seen the good work done by this board.
“We have pledges from the council to build a 3G pitch that could be lost. We had a potential agreement to build a hotel on the grounds that could be lost
“The Club’s Academy has taken in over 400 kids and achieved “legacy” status from the SFA, the only Club in Fife to have that, since I became chairman. That could fall apart, because the people involved had bought into the vision we were trying to create.”
Murray revealed that a large portion of the East Fife board was ready to resign in solidarity, but he has urged them to stay in place.
Murray’s departure, meanwhile, is expected to have no bearing on the position of player/manager Gary Naysmith.
It was later reported that Jim Stevenson has been elected interim chairman by the remaining board members.
A few points there that we have all possibly theorised in the last few days, Lee has now publicly stated as fact;
i) The owners don't want to sell!!!
ii) The owner's want "silly money" for their shares!!!
and possibly most importantly
iii) Bruce Black would be a "front" for the Rankine/Johnstone/Twigg cartel, whose position if reinstated at Boardroom level at the Club, would be "solely to look after their interests"!!!
Obviously we should be wary of who we are jumping into bed with here!!!
"We have pledges from the council to build a 3G pitch that could be lost."
The council is skint and cutting back
" We had a potential agreement to build a hotel on the grounds that could be lost"
No disrespect to Methil but who the fook is going to utilise it?Methil is hardly a hotspot for tourists or passing trade
Too many on here taking Murrays statement/quotes as gospel
No wonder the owners want to put their own man in with some of the stuff Murray was coming out with.
All these ideas which were ludicrous when he didn't even own the club (Did he ever have the money to buy in the first place?)
I agree too many people take what Murray says as gospel.
However don't let the heart rule the head.
As mentioned - who the hell would think it was a good idea to build a hotel in Methil???????????
Same with the crowdfunding -
why spend money on a new club shop? It makes no economic sense. Its not as if you are going to get anymore people buying stuff.
Same with the café. FFS cafes in Leven High Street struggle so why would one situated at Bayview work? It would be a disaster.
We then had all the talk of the huge new year party at Bayview plastered all over the papers when everyone knew there was never a chance of it happening.
Too much false hope and too many unfulfilled promises. That's how Murray's tenure will be remembered. Oh and where is Brian McNeil who promised us the world?
Everyone knows that the guys on the East Fife board are just a step up from the Methilhill bowling club committee. They have no money.
I totally understand why the owners would want Bruce in charge. At least he is an East Fife fan, so I would welcome his return.
Shambles isn't the word for whats gone over the last year.
No wonder the owners want to put their own man in with some of the stuff Murray was coming out with.
All these ideas which were ludicrous when he didn't even own the club (Did he ever have the money to buy in the first place?)
I agree too many people take what Murray says as gospel.
However don't let the heart rule the head.
As mentioned - who the hell would think it was a good idea to build a hotel in Methil???????????
Same with the crowdfunding -
why spend money on a new club shop? It makes no economic sense. Its not as if you are going to get anymore people buying stuff.
Same with the café. FFS cafes in Leven High Street struggle so why would one situated at Bayview work? It would be a disaster.
We then had all the talk of the huge new year party at Bayview plastered all over the papers when everyone knew there was never a chance of it happening.
Too much false hope and too many unfulfilled promises. That's how Murray's tenure will be remembered. Oh and where is Brian McNeil who promised us the world?
Everyone knows that the guys on the East Fife board are just a step up from the Methilhill bowling club committee. They have no money.
I totally understand why the owners would want Bruce in charge. At least he is an East Fife fan, so I would welcome his return.
Shambles isn't the word for whats gone over the last year.
I think we as supporters need to look at Bruce Black's post and his comment that the majority shareholders favour fan/community ownership. Too much personal crap being bandied about on here which will achieve nothing. I think the Trust is the organisation that is best placed to liaise with Bruce Black regarding this and we all need to get behind them.
the majority shareholders favor getting money back
Wouldn't you?
And just how do you know the financial standing of anyone on the EFFC board or anyother fan for that matter? You are doing people who have put a lot of time & their own money into the club a huge dis-service!
Bear in mind that the majority share holders have put no money into the club for at least 10 years so how do you think we have survived til now?
"There was no "fire sale". That's might have happened without the investment (at full share price). Cost to buy them out now will be for negotiation and could very likely be paid up over a longish period of years. But it will have to be seen as fair all round and I don't think we can expect them to sell at a loss."
Quote from Bruce Black who has stated he knows the feelings of major shareholders. So if we are to progress we need to know what to aim for. That is what level of return is wanted £3,£4, £5 per share. Once we have this figure we can draw up a plan for action to raise the amount.
The obvious people to conduct the negotiation for a fan's takeover is the Trust but needs openness as funds will need to come from more than trust members. I doubt a figure will be given for spurious reasons like financial confidentiality. But let's face it if you want sell you put a price on and listen to offers. So what is the price that will be acceptable? Until this is known nothing can happen.
Would be interesting what figure was turned down in both the trust and lee's negotiations?
Of course - but what I wouldn't do is dress it up as anything else.
Rankine bought as an opportunist in the Danskin firesale. I suggest he has made no funding nor taken any interest in the club during that 14 year tenure other than trying to sell the land and stadium to a supermarket.
(land that was gifted by the way and a stadium that we got for free - remember the court case where the debt could not be proven!).
Nope - he took a punt (and I'm suggesting this punt was << 400K) - it didn't payoff as hoped - time to move on.
But no, he wants 400K and is using the guise of "favoring fan ownership" to try get it.
Sorry but where will the fan base get 400K from? Where will the club get 400K from to buy him out......sell the land.....but to whom.....the council that gifted it to the club in the first place!?!?!
A reality check is needed here. If 400K was a fair price......why in the 14 years of owning the asset has non-one met the valuation!?! BECAUSE IT IS A CRAZY PRICE. Lee Murray said a lot of things but on this I agrees with him.
A football club in debt on land that is only fit for a football stadium is not worth £1million.
If the club were to go out of business (a real possibility) his 52% will be worth he-haw.
Neil has to take what he can get or get nothing.
If Administration is only a couple of months away. Let's see him try get 400K for his shares then.
Of course - but what I wouldn\'t do is dress it up as anything else.
Rankine bought as an opportunist in the Danskin firesale. I suggest he has made no funding nor taken any interest in the club during that 14 year tenure other than trying to sell the land and stadium to a supermarket.
(land that was gifted by the way and a stadium that we got for free - remember the court case where the debt could not be proven!).
Nope - he took a punt (and I\'m suggesting this punt was << 400K) - it didn\'t payoff as hoped - time to move on.
But no, he wants 400K and is using the guise of \"favoring fan ownership\" to try get it.
Sorry but where will the fan base get 400K from? Where will the club get 400K from to buy him out......sell the land.....but to whom.....the council that gifted it to the club in the first place!?!?!
A reality check is needed here. If 400K was a fair price......why in the 14 years of owning the asset has non-one met the valuation!?! BECAUSE IT IS A CRAZY PRICE. Lee Murray said a lot of things but on this I agrees with him.
A football club in debt on land that is only fit for a football stadium is not worth £1million.
If the club were to go out of business (a real possibility) his 52% will be worth he-haw.
Neil has to take what he can get or get nothing.
No offence, but your post is more about how much the major shareholders will lose/profit than about the survival of the club. At the end of the day, these majority shareholders/Neil are the only people who will decide what their investment is currently worth to them and set a price of their choice. Hopefully, they will be prepared to sell for less to a properly set up fans organisation (Trust?).
It is no good going on about reality checks etc, because you have no idea what price they want. You are saying above that the club is in debt (how much) and that it is a real possibility the club will go out of business. Pure conjecture on your part and in 'reality', you have no idea what the state of the clubs finances are. If you do, tell the rest of us with hard figures.
Of course - but what I wouldn't do is dress it up as anything else.
Rankine bought as an opportunist in the Danskin firesale. I suggest he has made no funding nor taken any interest in the club during that 14 year tenure other than trying to sell the land and stadium to a supermarket.
(land that was gifted by the way and a stadium that we got for free - remember the court case where the debt could not be proven!).
Nope - he took a punt (and I'm suggesting this punt was << 400K) - it didn't payoff as hoped - time to move on.
But no, he wants 400K and is using the guise of "favoring fan ownership" to try get it.
Sorry but where will the fan base get 400K from? Where will the club get 400K from to buy him out......sell the land.....but to whom.....the council that gifted it to the club in the first place!?!?!
A reality check is needed here. If 400K was a fair price......why in the 14 years of owning the asset has non-one met the valuation!?! BECAUSE IT IS A CRAZY PRICE. Lee Murray said a lot of things but on this I agrees with him.
A football club in debt on land that is only fit for a football stadium is not worth £1million.
If the club were to go out of business (a real possibility) his 52% will be worth he-haw.
Neil has to take what he can get or get nothing.
If Administration is only a couple of months away. Let's see him try get 400K for his shares then.
Sorry don't agree because even if the club goes into administration I am sure Rankine will benefit because of the value of the land which in this day would be worth a lot even at knock down price. any ideas of its value?
Bear in mind that the majority share holders have put no money into the club for at least 10 years so how do you think we have survived til now?
I'm certainly not dissing the hard work of the board members. I'm sure they put in a fair number of hours work which given that most of them are Old Age Pensioners, they have the time to do so.
But don't be ridiculous and suggest that any of them have any real money. They are only there by the grace of the owners. The owners could remove them from their positions at the drop of a hat.
However they are useful idiots to keep things ticking over.
You post on here from time to time, usually at times of crisis or when the ownership of the club comes under scrutiny.
One of the points you have highlighted more than once is that the club was in dire need of a buyer for Danskin's shares in 2000. Correct me if I am wrong, but this appears to be your explanation of why the majority shareholders are not who we would hope they are i. e. people with interest in the club, and a vision for its future. Instead, we have opportunist investors.
From what I can gather, you were involved in finding a buyer for Danskin's shares. I don't doubt it was a very difficult situation, and we were all grateful that the club survived that period of uncertainty.
Now here we are in 2014, and I can't help thinking that East Fife have not moved on an inch since then. Basically, we have gone through the motions during a 14-year charade. The club's existence has been virtually pointless, and will continue to be so as long as it is controlled by people who have no interest in it.
So has it been worth it? Was the Twigg/Johnson deal worth it? It might have seemed so at the time, but I would argue now, 14 years later, that it has crippled us. We survived, but to do what?
There are very few people who know all the various parties and relationships involved in the current impasse, and know the background to how this situation came about.
So my point is: 14 miserable years later, what can you do, Bruce, to resolve this untenable position? I am tempted to refer to it as unfinished business. No club or business can prosper if the majority shareholder has no interest in it. It is not hard to imagine another 14 years of this pointlessness.
One other point: I think you have indicated on this forum that the majority owners paid full price for their holding. They are on record as saying that the shares were purchased at a big discount. From memory, I would say it was 50%, although I would have to check and get back to you. What did you mean by full price?
Regards
Donald
Excellent post. I was thinking the same. This is a valid post to Bruce.
I hope we're not getting more porkies and half-truths that we're used to.
Mr Black...?
No offence, but your post is more about how much the major shareholders will lose/profit than about the survival of the club. At the end of the day, these majority shareholders/Neil are the only people who will decide what their investment is currently worth to them and set a price of their choice.
The market will decide the price. These shares have been on the market for some time with no buyer.
Hopefully, they will be prepared to sell for less to a properly set up fans organisation (Trust?).
Agreed. If they are selling to the trust then what is the realistic figure a trust could ever raise.....20, 30 40K. Can't see it getting about that to be honest.
It is no good going on about reality checks etc, because you have no idea what price they want.
This thread suggests 400K.
You are saying above that the club is in debt (how much) and that it is a real possibility the club will go out of business. Pure conjecture on your part and in \'reality\', you have no idea what the state of the clubs finances are. If you do, tell the rest of us with hard figures.
Indeed it is conjecture.......but is it inaccurate. Time will tell. With players signed then the chairman walking out....is there enough pennies in the pot to pay the bills and teh overheads we've committed to. Murray stated that he'd asked shareholders for cash.
Apparently David Hamilton is away now as well.
2 in one week
Zak, what credibility you once had, which was well earned with your outstanding running and organisation of the 1938 Travel Club, continues to be eroded and picked at with each post you make!!!
In less than a season you have went from established "Good Guy" and "friend of the Club", looked up to and admired by the majority of supporters, to "Twat of the Highest Order" and "General Figure of Ridicule and Fun", whose every post is lept upon and analysed by the forum users as the ramblings of a sad lonely man, who is probably missing the attention, adulation, contact and , dare I say it, the Control he once had over the general Fanbase and to be honest Zak, it hasn't been pleasant to witness!!!
Zak, do yourself a favour and take a step back from the PC and have a think about what you are going to post before hitting the send button!!!
And also Zak, please, please stop mixing alcohol and Football Forum participation, it never ends well and only makes the user look like a complete tool and an even bigger fud than people who don't know them, think they are!!!
Give it a rest!!!
In less than a season you have went from established "Good Guy" and "friend of the Club", looked up to and admired by the majority of supporters, to "Twat of the Highest Order" and "General Figure of Ridicule and Fun", whose every post is lept upon and analysed by the forum users as the ramblings of a sad lonely man, who is probably missing the attention, adulation, contact and , dare I say it, the Control he once had over the general Fanbase and to be honest Zak, it hasn't been pleasant to witness!!!
Zak, do yourself a favour and take a step back from the PC and have a think about what you are going to post before hitting the send button!!!
And also Zak, please, please stop mixing alcohol and Football Forum participation, it never ends well and only makes the user look a complete tool and a bigger fud than people who don't know them, think they are!!!
Give it a rest!!!
Well said! Take heed Zak please
Hearing some murmurings tonight that there was a Board meeting this morning and some sort of news regarding the Club will be coming out possibly on Monday. All unconfirmed at this stage though.
Bruce Black mentioned in an earlier post that it would be unfair for the major shareholder to be pilloried as their position is clear - a willing seller to someone with the Club’s best interests at heart (supporters).
If I know East Fife fans, they will more than just pillory the main shareholders and for good reason. One of my first recollections of East Fife was watching them play Celtic at Bayview in front of 10,000 fans. I remember (maybe wrongly) the home end packed with at least 6,ooo East Fife fans. Look to last season where we struggled to get 2,000 to watch Rangers and certainly nothing like that to see Dunfermline. From that, can you argue we have lost two thirds of our support in a generation? If we have, it has all to do with the many scandals, false dawns and broken promises that have dogged the Club during this time. A Club should be there to promote and bring pride to its host area. For the most part, East Fife has brought further despondency and even shame.
In short, if the remaining fans are to continue to support the Club, its Board and its shareholders, a far greater degree of openness and honesty than would normally be the case has to take place.
Simply look back over the past few years and see how many people who have been connected to the club have been “pilloried”. They will have felt that they have acted with the best will for the Club and we can now unfortunately add Lee Murray to that list. If this is not dealt with sensitively and quickly then we can also firmly add the major shareholders and Bruce Black there too. Simply do not doubt the passions that still do exist for this Club both locally and abroad.
If the major shareholder has a true willingness to see the Club enter into supporter ownership, would they invite a representative each from the Supporter’s Club and Supporter’s Trust onto the Board as full Directors? There are now 2 vacancies on the board!
As a more medium term solution would they not also consider selling a number of shares to the Supporters Trust at a discounted rate, for a short period? If 40,000 shares were to be made available at this rate, then this would at least give the Trust an opportunity to become the 2nd largest group of shareholders and strengthen their position so that they can they seek to gain better funding to offer a more enhanced level of return for the main shareholders?
If Bruce Black reads this, I hope it is taken in the manner in which it is intended. You can put some gold into these black times.
I wish a good section of the supporters would promote pride in Methil/Levenmouth, some comments on here do nothing to promote EFFC or the Area, get the feeling that some are hell bent on seeing the club go to the wall just so they can say "I told you so".
I wish a good section of the supporters would promote pride in Methil/Levenmouth, some comments on here do nothing to promote EFFC or the Area, get the feeling that some are hell bent on seeing the club go to the wall just so they can say "I told you so".
The club is heading for the wall already, have you not noticed yet? I find it amazing that at a time like this, some people can't accept that there will be complaints and criticism. And you expect supporters to be promoting the club on this forum? You mean promote an organisation that has let down its people time and time again, lied to them, conned threm and took their money year after years? What sort of world did you grow up in? I would say that if this big a shambles existed at any other club, there would be just as much dissent. In most cases, there would be much more anger. That is why we have been taken for a ride for so long. Too many people like you put up with being treated like shit.
I wish a good section of the supporters would promote pride in Methil/Levenmouth, some comments on here do nothing to promote EFFC or the Area, get the feeling that some are hell bent on seeing the club go to the wall just so they can say \\\"I told you so\\\".
The club is heading for the wall already, have you not noticed yet? I find it amazing that at a time like this, some people can\\\'t accept that there will be complaints and criticism. And you expect supporters to be promoting the club on this forum? You mean promote an organisation that has let down its people time and time again, lied to them, conned threm and took their money year after years?
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What sort of world did you grow up in?
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I would say that if this big a shambles existed at any other club, there would be just as much dissent. In most cases, there would be much more anger. That is why we have been taken for a ride for so long. Too many people like you put up with being treated like shit.
In the real world, unlike yourself. I would hate to live in the same household as you mate! I don't think it would be a laugh a minute kinda place.
The problem with your post is that it does not take a time like this for whingers like yourself to complain or criticise, it is an ongoing hobby for you at ALL times.
