All good things come to an end. Or so they say. AFTN has been around since 1989, first as a fanzine and then making the jump to a website and forum in 2003. We've been through the many ups and down at East Fife in those 12 years but policing the forum has become a giant pain in the ass in recent years. As such, we made the decision not to renew it when it expired.
The forum is no more and will remain as a locked archive until it is eventually deleted by the host. We're looking in to try to save some of the content as an archive.
This is not the end of AFTN though. The site will continue and will be revamped and return in its full glory for the start of the 2016/17 season. Maybe even sooner. There will be a comment sections and possibly even a new, registered forum. Check our Twitter (@aftnwebsite) for all the latest info and we'll also post in on the EFFC memories Facebook page.
Until then, have a last browse here, thanks for all your support over the years, and 'Mon the Fife.
GoF
First of all I'd like to say congratulations to the "working group" fronting the EFSS in getting tonight's meeting arranged so quickly and getting things underway, it was also good to hear from Paul Goodwin from Supporters Direct Scotland. Great turnout from us the fans too!
On the whole i'd say tonight's meeting was a success, some very tricky questions were asked and valid points raised, and on the whole were answered well IMO. The obvious ground that the fans would've liked to have heard a bit more transparency on was the topic of who actually owns the shares and the whole Neil Rankine debate. In my opinion (no more than that of a supporter and backer of the idea) is that the working group going ahead would be mad not to approach Donald Walker and Bob Moreland to join the working group. I personally feel they would both be invaluable to the cause if they were willing to join up. Bob's prior experience with Neil Rankine in particular could potentially prove to be vital.
Mon the Fife!
Totally agree!
I too congratulate the working party on arranging this meeting and to the supporters who turned up and asked relevant questions.
Where I differ though, is I don't think that goal of buying the shares for fan ownership should get bogged down in who owns shares.
This issue has been well documented over the years and is now finally the subject of an external investigation.
What is more important, is there is now an opportunity for community ownership which would ensure there could never be a repeat of this.
I believe all efforts by all supporters should be focused on supporting any relevant working party in trying to investigate all options identify all obstacles if any and to report back to supporters all details so fans can make an informed choice on whether fan ownership is feasible
The goal is a great one.
The means of archiving that goal perhaps need some refinement - I'd imagine the steering group will open up so that whomever has something to contribute in the negations and planning can get involved.
The slides (and soundtrack!) were excellent .... as was Angus's heartfelt pitch at the end of the meeting.
It would be great to see supporters pull together and make this happen. While the sellers may have an urgency to sell, we the buyer are in a stronger position and the terms and timelines is something we will control.
Agree with the above posts. Well done to those involved getting things up and running.
One point I made at the meeting about Lee Murrays bid having failed and Eugene having been approached by a third party suggests these shareholders are very keen to sell. Eugene stated that other parties are interested in purchasing the shares. Just a thought but was it the shareholders representative who made that interest known to EFSS ?
If you want to sell something the price will stay high if there are more than one party interested (supply & demand). Are the sellers trying to inflate the price by claiming others are interested ? If there is other interest, why would they go through a third party to offer the shares to EFSS ? To force the price up ?
Could the EFSS negotiate with these other interested parties to finance the takeover if it isn't going to be possible for a complete fan takeover ?
They are obviously keen to sell so we need to negotiate hard to get the best deal.
Something that hasn't been made clear is why the majority shareholders will sell to the fans group and not Lee Murray.
Is it because Rankine...sorry (Twigg/Johnston) weren't happy with what Murray was offering, and believe that they can screw the supporters for more cash than they would get from a private bidder?
We have to make sure we negotiate hard and not allow them to take advantage of our love for the club.
Find the Twigg family make their life a misery.
Agree great turn out, great effort by the working party and I think the majority will push for community ownership. Three things though.,
1) it worries me greatly that the current board will NOT expose the up to date position of the clubs finances; to me it suggests that we may be exposed to bigger than expected debt.
2) felt sorry for Eugene being singled out by one member of the audience for not being transparent. To be fair these guys are committing serious personal time to ensure the best for the future of our beloved club and for that fact alone they should be respected and acknowledged not belittled. We also have to be cognisant of the fact that legally they can only disclose so much information, hence why some names could not be mentioned.
3) thought Mr Mills rallying call at the end was a perfect tonic to conclude what I thought was a successful first gathering. He spoke with passion and heaps of heart felt emotion and for that I applaud. I feel the same. It's our chance, its our opportunity, embrace it and except the challenge, if we don't then the club will be administration bound and in this league that will result in a demotion to the lower echelons of scottish football.
On a final note, people are not being faced with unaffordable pledges; its community focused, therefore you give what you can afford, from a pound to whatever a month. It's the collective community commitment that makes such a venture successful,. If your personal situation changes then you can opt out, reduce your pledge or maybe if things are going well for you up your pledge. From this juncture forward we have to be united, one family, together working for each other to ensure longevity. I love East Fife its been with me for most of my 50 years, I don't want to lose it, Saturdays without the Fife, well that's just unacceptable.
The trust has always longed to be in control of the club as are all trusts throughout the country.There are,as stated, 2 other interested parties,my concern is that the trust is willing to gain control/strike a deal at the earliest opportunity no matter what the asking price.
Alan said that he hoped that with fan ownership there would be an openness to the running of the club yet Alan,Eugene and Stephen were a bit evasive when asked about the deal....
1)No fee was agreed yet but the term would be 15yrs.15yrs to pay what then?
2)No names mentioned (probably legal stuff)as to who they were dealing with.
3)Eugene was contacted about the sale through a "3rd party" yet wouldn't say who.
Yet Alan talked about openness.
Mr Moreland said something along the lines of "good luck trying to negotiate with Mr Rankine as it will be extremely difficult".Why would he say Mr Rankine's name regarding negotiations?
The guy along from me with the white shirt (Donald?) basically asked why negotiations were started between parties when a SFA/SPFL enquiry into Rankine's ownership/affairs were about to start next week.
WHO ARE WE DEALING WITH ?
I kept hearing that the majority shareholders are keen to sell, why now ? and why, as Mr Moreland stated, 5 x what they paid(70k)
I hope at the next meeting we hear what the asking price actually is and what comes with it i.e. shares,club,ground,land etc
I'm truly sorry if my opinion comes across as negative,i'm just worried that we,as fans, enter into an agreement to buy the club at ANY cost.
I will donate/pledge/direct debt for the cause if it comes about but the trust has to be more open about its dealings at the next meeting.
It was a fantastic turn out by the fans and a great effort by the trust.Loved the slideshow and appreciated the guidance by Paul Goodwin.
Great turnout. Mostly positive. Some anger/passion from Donald and Bob, understandably considering their past involvement with he who must not be named. However for me its quite simple. Everyone knows who we are dealing with but the working party were asked not to disclose names. Not unusual as some sellers in this situation would prefer not to be named but we DO know so no big deal there. Does it really matter who the seller is? Ok, its someone who we have complained about for years and now the chance to have the shares/club in OUR hands is possible and we should do our utmost to make it happen! I don't care who we buy them from as long as they are safely on OUR hands
Stirling Albion fans paid 300k for a club [with no stadium] If we the fans can pay the same and also own the stadium an surrounding land? No brainer.
I personally will put a lumpsum and a DD to the bid and also will ask my family and friends to contribute as well. Some may contribute some may not, but I will try.
Angus Fifers speech at the end was passionate and honest and deserved the applause.
What a year this can turn out to be, we the fans owning our own football club under an independent Scotland.
MONTHEFIFESCOTLANDFOREVER.
It was stated that the current board of the club are neither with us or against us.
I don't think there is a middle ground on this. I'll suggest that unless Marshal, Stevenson et el come out in support of this soon, we can safely assume they are against this.
Why was there no anouncment about the meeting by the club's stadium announcer? Was cazza told not to?
Fan power was demonstrated with the removal of Derrick brown. Do these guys really want to fight the fans on this?
Jimbob. Sorry if you didn't like the YES part. Only my feelings, not trying to sway anyone on that point only the East Fife part. You have to admit though that its turning out to be a defining year for East Fife!
Listening to Angus Fifer made me think of a question I asked a few people over the years. Many moons ago when I was at school[ 1960's] we had Celtic in our league cup section and beat them 2-0 at Bayview. Went to parkhead for the return game and lost 6-0. Asked my dad why he took me to Bayview in the 1st place when I was a small boy when we are now in the old 2nd division and struggling? He said that when I was pre-school age we were top of the 1st had just won the league cup and were in the Scottish cup final all in the same season, why would i not take you?
When i got older i asked him what really happened? How could such a club go down so badly in a short space of time? All he said was "it was gerry dawsons fault" No one knew what really happenned then. So how did it happen? Dundee Utd, aberdeen, motherwell etc all manage to survive their bad years and still stay in the top league of 12, or at least bounce back quickly. How come we went down in an 18 team league and never recovered?? What happened to all the good income from our bigger gates and 50% of Ibrox and parkhead??
Onwards to another era, Dave Clarke. Same again, doing well just missed promotion to the premier by a couple of points on the last day of the season, 1/4 final scottish, losing a replay to dundee. Then? manager leaves for falkirk and takes star players with him. Result relegation next season.
I asked this same question to a fan of a similar age as me, 60ish and his answer, "och, we were lucky, just punching above our weight for a few years"
You maybe wondering where im going with this as we all know the history but only the football facts. Was this bad boardroom decisions?? Chairman decisions?? Money miss management??My question now is:- WOULD THESE DEFINING MOMENTS IN OUR HISTORY HAVE HAPPENED UNDER FAN OWNERSHIP?????
We all get the history of what happened on the field, but as far as im concerened, although way too late, I would like to know:- WHAT REALLY HAPPENED BEHIND THE SCENES TO EAST FIFE BETWEEN 1954 AND 1960?????
We love our history and its good reading but it should be recorded properly. Rangers every word regarding boardroom is published nowadays [mostly]. So should ours. Wont do any good and theres nothing can be done about it but im very courious to know. Is anyone else?
I remember the Celtic games. That 6-0 was so embarrassing. It made me think how could we beat them one week and be so outclassed the next. I think the answer may be in our home support, in those days we had quite a few matches where we played above our weight at home to great encouragement from the crowd. Nowadays I think we have a negative home advantage with the constant trend to denigrate the team which is not so obvious at away games. I think it is so bad that I would imgine at times the team dreads playin at home. Until we get behind the team wholeheartedly we will always struggle as the constant barracking lowers the team's performance no matter who plays.
Maybe the buyout may be a good step in this direction. Still I hope we will get an account as Gof has asked. Some of the questions I would like to know are how much is being asked and what proposals are put forward to raising and paying this monies. Are the two other parties really interested and Why? Much has been hinted at but as yet no real facts.
I would also like to know why but do not expect to find out why Eugene resigned so abruptly and what happened to the bid by Lee. It seems there has been something a bit fishy recently. I know being on the board by Eugene and Kerriann will involve confidentiality concerns and the board's seemingly lukewarm attitude is worrying. Lots to play for and the only way forward is to be as open as possible to get the backing of the fans.
To be fair to Eugene and the other people in the trust they will be limited in what they can say. I've been involved in a couple of company sales and once you enter into due diligence you are under a legally binding confidentially agreement.
I think we are being given all the information they can at the moment.
I think this is potentially very exciting for the club and along with a number of exiles be willing to commit on a monthly basis.
I agree with Derby Fifer. I really think we were given all the info they could yesterday. From what I gathered, although they're not at the due diligencestage yet, they are trying to appease all involved to get there. I'm sure that details like Eugene resigning, Murray walking etc will all come to light eventually but till then, we should let them go through the necessary process. The EFSS are an open body. They are regulated too. I'm convinced they'll tell us what they can, when they can.
Firstly thanks to everyone who attended the meeting and I hope we can keep your support as things progress.
Someone from the EFSS group has taken the forms away to evaluate the level of support and we are due to meet on Monday and Thursday nights at least to develop things like our own business plan and with Supporters Direct push for a suitable date to start the due diligence process.
One encouraging event is that the majority shareholders have advised us that,if necessary,they will encourage the EFFC board not to hinder this process.
There have been several requests for a summary of yesterdays meeting and that will be available as part of an EFSS newsletter which will be issued later this week.
There are several questions asked on this site but to start trying to communicate with every individual on-line will not work but we will try to keep everyone up to date through the newsletter and updates when necessary.
I might be wrong but my understanding was Eugene gave his reasons at a Trust meeting recently I don't think there was anything sinister for his resignation.
I really struggle however to find any reason why a previous failed bid by Lee and his group should be made available to other interested bid partners. I suppose the simplistic way would be for anyone having sleepless nights wondering why the bid failed should ask the question to Lee or Brian.
The very fact that the current major shareholder insists on anonymity simply reinforces the unacceptable state of affairs at East Fife Football Club. Time to throw our collective weight behind the bid to buy his shares.
If the due diligence shows what I suspect it will, the "hard negotiations" won't be with the majority shareholders, it'll be with the creditors.
The negotiations with the shareholder will be on how they want their pound - coin, note or two 50p.
JJ,
I think the 6-0 beating was mostly down to our Polish sounding goalkeeper Krusyski (excuse the spelling, it was a long time ago) he threw the ball into his own net to gift Celtic a goal.
There have been several requests for a summary of yesterdays meeting and that will be available as part of an EFSS newsletter which will be issued later this week.
There are several questions asked on this site but to start trying to communicate with every individual on-line will not work but we will try to keep everyone up to date through the newsletter and updates when necessary.
Do I take it from the above quote from NTOC that this newsletter will be circulated via email to trust members for whom you have their addresses. If so those of us who were unable to attend and are not members of the trust will be in the dark once again. For reasons which this is one of them I have not joined the trust although often been tempted. Stopping now as so angry at trusts approach once again highlighted ...
EVERYONE who's e mail address we have will receive the newsletter whether they are trust members or not.
You have the chance to log on the survey & leave your details there. You have internet access so please leave your details. You are committing to nothing at this stage
NO ONE will be excluded but please what more do you expect us to do? If you dont give us your contact details is it our fault that you dont get information? We cannot hand deliver to your door.
The newsletter will be uploaded onto the buyeastfife website & no doubt it will be uploaded to this site as well. How much more transparent can we be?
A lot people (Trust & non Trust) are bursting a gut to make this work, try and be supportive please.
Wasn't made clear in original post but I apologise for assuming the worst. Now posted my email in survey which is a bit premature to complete before knowing the info into which I would be contributing. I want this to work as well as the next but we need to get it right so I am concerned that things go well from the outset.
JJ we are less than 2 weeks into what will be a difficult process & no doubt there will be a few low points to be encountered along the way but we WILL get there.
Every effort will be made to keep everyone informed as much as we possibly can.
It may be a bit premature to ask people if they would contribute but imagine if the working group had taken the the next 3 weeks to go into due diligence, appointed legal & financial consultants and agreed a deal with the majority shareholders before calling the fans meeting only to find that 5 people turned up! Red faces & a total loss of respectability for everyone involved!
We had to find out wether this is what the fans want before writing the t's & i's never mind crossing & dotting them.
Handing over a deposit and agreeing a payment scheme to acquire shares means nothing if the deal doesn't include the land.We would be merely renting from the landlord(Rankine) who 10-15yrs down the line can make us homeless by selling the land.No land should = No deal.
How much is the club worth?
Any informed estimates?
I can't answer that NB simply because I just don't know but I will find out asap
For goodness sake why not get NC JJ and all the other micro managers on your working party.
Why cant the working party be given the time and trust to get all that is required done to make this buy out feasible and present proposals with details to the fans who will be buying the club.
Instead of negativity of this bloody site If you don't like what is presented at the end of negotiations don't buy. If you do like what's said at the end of negations then buy.
But for christs sake give the working party support and peace to get on with it without having to keep looking over their backs at anonymous posters. The working party are all named so support them.
Why is that at the meeting, Alan said that they don't have any financial information after March 2013? Eugene has been on the board until recently, and Liam is an associate director so surely they should have more an idea of the recent financial position?
Eugene was a full director thanks to he hard work of the Trust. What a time to pick to resign the position.
That's a good point you raise Ringo about the working group being made up of volunteers.
Lee Murray mentioned the vast number of hours of his time that were required to run the club last season.
As well as trying to get a deal together to pay the debt and get a budget together to run the club, the working group will need to appoint some poor soul to run the thing!
I am sure this will be part of the groups thoughts as the proposal firms up and noises were made about this during Saturday's meeting.
Obviously anyone brokering the deal can't be considered else it would be seen as a conflict of interests. I recall Bruce Black making a statement on AFTN that he was looking after the shareholders interests so that is him out.
Anyone know of an East Fife fan out there with 40 hours a week to spare, business expertise and a very think skin? (and preferably 100K to throw away on players)