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Away From The Numbers

All good things come to an end. Or so they say. AFTN has been around since 1989, first as a fanzine and then making the jump to a website and forum in 2003. We've been through the many ups and down at East Fife in those 12 years but policing the forum has become a giant pain in the ass in recent years. As such, we made the decision not to renew it when it expired.

The forum is no more and will remain as a locked archive until it is eventually deleted by the host. We're looking in to try to save some of the content as an archive.

This is not the end of AFTN though. The site will continue and will be revamped and return in its full glory for the start of the 2016/17 season. Maybe even sooner. There will be a comment sections and possibly even a new, registered forum. Check our Twitter (@aftnwebsite) for all the latest info and we'll also post in on the EFFC memories Facebook page.

Until then, have a last browse here, thanks for all your support over the years, and 'Mon the Fife.

GoF

 

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EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

The following information will also be on a flyer handed out at tomorrow's game.

MEETING TODAY 18th OCT AT 5.00pm in FRIC BUILDING(OPPOSITE BAYVIEW)

Following the last Newsletter there will be a follow-up meeting for all fans and anyone interested in helping East Fife prosper as a successful community run club.
The meeting will be held at 5.00 pm in the FRIC (Energy Building) immediately after today’s game against Annan.
There are three main topics with an open Q & A session for any areas not covered.
• Status of the Buy East Fife campaign
• Status of the EFFC Director’s bid for full ownership
• Taking the next step in identifying the people and skills which will help East Fife flourish.
• Open Q & A session

PLEASE MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO ATTEND.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Braw. Hopefully we can learn more about clubs finances as clearly this is important information to know before any takeover can happen. Hopefully the rumours are a load o shite and club is in good stead like it was before new board came in and made a cunt of things.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Hello fellow east fife supporters, i am unable to attend the meeting tommorrow but would love info on whats happening. How far we are at etc. Eugiene if u or anyone can email main points etc that will be great. Fully behind takeover. Time fans have full say in the club we love. Cheers stuart

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Stuart

If you send your email address to member@buyeastfife.org we'll be sending out an update after the meeting.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Thanks guys for organising this evening's discussion and it was good to learn about the goings on since the last meeting.

One real positive that came out of the discussion was the willingness for the east fife supporters to work with the east fife directors. Hopefully we can build on this going forward.

We learned more about the east fife directors bid. Having thought about it, I've concluded that it is not something I can support. I feel that the timing, the price, the funding, and the structure are not right. However, I think with some refinement and with inputs from the EFSS I really hope an improved joint bid can be forged. The proposal of an 8 person board sounded like one worth exploring further. Clearly a trust needs build before this can proceed, but given that all parties have a shared goal, I'm sure they can find a way to work with one another.

With unity there is strength. Strength to overcome the challenges that lie ahead - as the Irish sounding gentleman reminded us, controlling the club one challange, running the club is another. Together We'll have strength to get a better deal. After all, the combined finances of the people involved need to be partitioned between buying the control, paying the debt, and providing working capital to get the new east fife up and and running. If all the resources are sucked up buying the control, then the club still dies. We need to get a better deal because the one being persued is not viable. The seller's position is not as strong as he would have you believe.....

Let's hope for more discussions between the board and the EFSS so that a combined solution can be found.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Noisy_Crossbar
One real positive that came out of the discussion was the willingness for the east fife supporters to work with the east fife directors.


Very true NC, but I also got the impression that that was a "one-way" love-in, maybe it's just me but I don't think or declaration of devotion was really reciprocated!!!

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Not yet...... But I have faith.

Remember, the directors get blamed for everything. Because of past criticisms (mine included) they've got a longer road to travel to get to the point of mutual trust. But I'm hopeful we'll get there.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

I am losing hope in the survival of EFfc

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Noisy_Crossbar
Not yet...... But I have faith.

Remember, the directors get blamed for everything.


Is that not because it is usually their fault???

Remember, some of them, (if not all) were involved in the sale of Danskin's shares to the Rankine/Twigg/Johnston Polymorph, which got us into this shittip that we have been in for the past god knows how many seasons!!!

This also includes a very vocal ex-boardmember who was present tonight as well!!!

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Part of being a director is that assumed position of responsibility for when things don't go as planned.

What's done is done, though and can't be changed.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

King Kebab
Noisy_Crossbar
Not yet...... But I have faith.

Remember, the directors get blamed for everything.


Is that not because it is usually their fault???

Remember, some of them, (if not all) were involved in the sale of Danskin's shares to the Rankine/Twigg/Johnston Polymorph, which got us into this shittip that we have been in for the past god knows how many seasons!!!

This also includes a very vocal ex-boardmember who was present tonight as well!!!


The only one of the Gang Of Four who was involved at the time of the sale of shares to Rankine/Twigg was Jim Stevenson, aka The Only Possible Saviour of East Fife (copyright Dave Marshall).
Bob Moreland, who spoke at tonight's meeting, objected to the sale of Danskin's shares ('Julian was shafted') and resigned from the board not long after that.
Bruce Black was heavily involved at the time of the sale of the shares and has said recently on this forum that the majority shareholders should be paid what they are looking for. You can draw your own conclusion from that but I don't see him backing the Trust here.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

From a financial point of view the shares in question were bought at less than £4 per share. much of the shareholding was purchased when there was an offer of £3 for existing shareholders. The danskin shares were possibly less than this. So the expenditure of the majority shareholders is possibly only around 300K.

Take into account the assets of EFFC, the club is probably zero as it struggles to make a profit but it's landholding may be worth justifying it's high price. Otherwise it's worth shit.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

watcher
King Kebab
Noisy_Crossbar
Not yet...... But I have faith.

Remember, the directors get blamed for everything.


Is that not because it is usually their fault???

Remember, some of them, (if not all) were involved in the sale of Danskin's shares to the Rankine/Twigg/Johnston Polymorph, which got us into this shittip that we have been in for the past god knows how many seasons!!!

This also includes a very vocal ex-boardmember who was present tonight as well!!!


The only one of the Gang Of Four who was involved at the time of the sale of shares to Rankine/Twigg was Jim Stevenson, aka The Only Possible Saviour of East Fife (copyright Dave Marshall).
Bob Moreland, who spoke at tonight's meeting, objected to the sale of Danskin's shares ('Julian was shafted') and resigned from the board not long after that.
Bruce Black was heavily involved at the time of the sale of the shares and has said recently on this forum that the majority shareholders should be paid what they are looking for. You can draw your own conclusion from that but I don't see him backing the Trust here.


Not sure what the issue is here. Does anyone think Danskin - by then a convicted paedophile and in prison - should have been left with his shares! That would certainly have finished the club. As I recall there was enormous relief all round when his shares were bought from him. What has changed?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Bored Stiff

Not sure what the issue is here. Does anyone think Danskin - by then a convicted paedophile and in prison - should have been left with his shares! That would certainly have finished the club. As I recall there was enormous relief all round when his shares were bought from him. What has changed?



Only a complete moron or apologist for incumbants would accuse somebody of such a charge, the point that I was bringing up (and subsequently fine-tuned by Watcher), is that the position that we now find our Club in is the fault of the Board of East Fife Football Club both past and some present, nobody else’s, and that includes some quite vocal protagonists in the current situation, such as Bruce Black and Bob Moreland!!!

The long-termed, ingrained, secretive, hiding behind the rules, telling the fans nothing attitude is what has got us into the mess we now “publicly” find ourselves in, nothing else. What was the rush in getting rid of Danskin’s shares, when he was in jail, we had all the time in the world to look for new buyers and new investors, Danskin was going nowhere, where was the “Due Diligence” then as the Board sold off the family silverware in the most shady of fashions to a man already known to have interests in two Public Companies, were the Shareholders, whose interests are a handy shield that the Board hide behind when it suits them, privy to any information from the dealings then, in fact were any shareholders informed about the sale of Danskins lot???

It just smacks of Self-Interest from both sides, a “look after my investment for me and you can be Chairman of a Professional Football Club with all the added benefits and privileges that that entails” type deal, as firstly Bruce Black facilitated the sale and then with Brown subsequently looking after the investment living it up with their Cup Final tickets and free seats to Scotland games and assorted SFA jollies around the country, brandy and cigars time for the boys indeed, all the while Rankine, looking at the prime plot of real-estate, rubbing his hands, mumbling “soon, soon” to himself!!!

I’ll end this tirade now as it is dangerously close to turning into “if my Auntie had balls, she’d be my Uncle” territory, but needless to say the mess that we now find ourselves in is the fault of the East Fife Board, both past and present and nobody else’s, their gross mismanagement is the reason we find ourselves staring over the edge of the abyss nothing else is to blame. In fact the whole reason the entire Rankine-gate affair is now public knowledge has nothing to do with our illustrious Boardroom fighting to rid themselves of him but outside investigative journalism, if our Current Board knew or were even bothered about the influence and the disadvantages that this man held over them why have they never tried to rid themselves of his control previously, looking out for the blazers perhaps???

Remember if this Club is going to be saved, and saving it needs, it will be the fans that will do it and not the unelected individuals who purport to have the Club’s best interests at heart!!!

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

King Kebab
Bored Stiff

Not sure what the issue is here. Does anyone think Danskin - by then a convicted paedophile and in prison - should have been left with his shares! That would certainly have finished the club. As I recall there was enormous relief all round when his shares were bought from him. What has changed?



Only a complete moron or apologist for incumbants would accuse somebody of such a charge, the point that I was bringing up (and subsequently fine-tuned by Watcher), is that the position that we now find our Club in is the fault of the Board of East Fife Football Club both past and some present, nobody else’s, and that includes some quite vocal protagonists in the current situation, such as Bruce Black and Bob Moreland!!!

The long-termed, ingrained, secretive, hiding behind the rules, telling the fans nothing attitude is what has got us into the mess we now “publicly” find ourselves in, nothing else. What was the rush in getting rid of Danskin’s shares, when he was in jail, we had all the time in the world to look for new buyers and new investors, Danskin was going nowhere, where was the “Due Diligence” then as the Board sold off the family silverware in the most shady of fashions to a man already known to have interests in two Public Companies, were the Shareholders, whose interests are a handy shield that the Board hide behind when it suits them, privy to any information from the dealings then, in fact were any shareholders informed about the sale of Danskins lot???

It just smacks of Self-Interest from both sides, a “look after my investment for me and you can be Chairman of a Professional Football Club with all the added benefits and privileges that that entails” type deal, as firstly Bruce Black facilitated the sale and then with Brown subsequently looking after the investment living it up with their Cup Final tickets and free seats to Scotland games and assorted SFA jollies around the country, brandy and cigars time for the boys indeed, all the while Rankine, looking at the prime plot of real-estate, rubbing his hands, mumbling “soon, soon” to himself!!!

I’ll end this tirade now as it is dangerously close to turning into “if my Auntie had balls, she’d be my Uncle” territory, but needless to say the mess that we now find ourselves in is the fault of the East Fife Board, both past and present and nobody else’s, their gross mismanagement is the reason we find ourselves staring over the edge of the abyss nothing else is to blame. In fact the whole reason the entire Rankine-gate affair is now public knowledge has nothing to do with our illustrious Boardroom fighting to rid themselves of him but outside investigative journalism, if our Current Board knew or were even bothered about the influence and the disadvantages that this man held over them why have they never tried to rid themselves of his control previously, looking out for the blazers perhaps???

Remember if this Club is going to be saved, and saving it needs, it will be the fans that will do it and not the unelected individuals who purport to have the Club’s best interests at heart!!!


KK you are the most level headed person I know, you dribble from both sides of your mouth. Do you think your continual nagging at the board of the club ( old and new ) is doing anyone any good. You have brought up no new points just went over the same old rubbish in a different form. I would have thought from what I understand at the time the club needed the money and unless I am a complete fool there was no-one else than Rankine with anything like the money that was needed for the shares. Not many people around here has that kind of money, unless you have. No I don't suppose you do, you spent to much time pissing about on AFTN and scoffing Indians to get your arse out of your chair to go and work to earn enough money to buy even a bit of the club. If you or half of the people who post on AFTN could come up with a half decent amount I assume you could be invited onto the board, you then could turn the club around, you seem to have all the answers. You can shout all you want about the fans saving the club, unless they or you have some money as the old guy from the board said last night waving your scarf and blaming people is not going to save the club. We all need to get behind the club, it wouldn't be me pumping money into the club just now but I am not going to blame the present board for doing so and trying to save the club, they seem to be more in tune with what it needs than you do. Not many of them look like they know as much about curries as you do though.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

All very well going over old ground and attributing blame here there and everywhere but what happened at the meeting showing the way forward?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

King Kebab
Bored Stiff

Not sure what the issue is here. Does anyone think Danskin - by then a convicted paedophile and in prison - should have been left with his shares! That would certainly have finished the club. As I recall there was enormous relief all round when his shares were bought from him. What has changed?



Only a complete moron or apologist for incumbants would accuse somebody of such a charge, the point that I was bringing up (and subsequently fine-tuned by Watcher), is that the position that we now find our Club in is the fault of the Board of East Fife Football Club both past and some present, nobody else’s, and that includes some quite vocal protagonists in the current situation, such as Bruce Black and Bob Moreland!!!

The long-termed, ingrained, secretive, hiding behind the rules, telling the fans nothing attitude is what has got us into the mess we now “publicly” find ourselves in, nothing else. What was the rush in getting rid of Danskin’s shares, when he was in jail, we had all the time in the world to look for new buyers and new investors, Danskin was going nowhere, where was the “Due Diligence” then as the Board sold off the family silverware in the most shady of fashions to a man already known to have interests in two Public Companies, were the Shareholders, whose interests are a handy shield that the Board hide behind when it suits them, privy to any information from the dealings then, in fact were any shareholders informed about the sale of Danskins lot???

It just smacks of Self-Interest from both sides, a “look after my investment for me and you can be Chairman of a Professional Football Club with all the added benefits and privileges that that entails” type deal, as firstly Bruce Black facilitated the sale and then with Brown subsequently looking after the investment living it up with their Cup Final tickets and free seats to Scotland games and assorted SFA jollies around the country, brandy and cigars time for the boys indeed, all the while Rankine, looking at the prime plot of real-estate, rubbing his hands, mumbling “soon, soon” to himself!!!

I’ll end this tirade now as it is dangerously close to turning into “if my Auntie had balls, she’d be my Uncle” territory, but needless to say the mess that we now find ourselves in is the fault of the East Fife Board, both past and present and nobody else’s, their gross mismanagement is the reason we find ourselves staring over the edge of the abyss nothing else is to blame. In fact the whole reason the entire Rankine-gate affair is now public knowledge has nothing to do with our illustrious Boardroom fighting to rid themselves of him but outside investigative journalism, if our Current Board knew or were even bothered about the influence and the disadvantages that this man held over them why have they never tried to rid themselves of his control previously, looking out for the blazers perhaps???

Remember if this Club is going to be saved, and saving it needs, it will be the fans that will do it and not the unelected individuals who purport to have the Club’s best interests at heart!!!


What a load o smiddy pish by someone who is under the delusion that fans with nae money are going to save the club. Will that be the fans who try to get in the concession gate when not eligible, or the ones that frequently state they won't be back?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Pie

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

KK is angry but his post is very accurate. He has called the situation correctly and his guess that the Danskin post came from an apologist is also spot on.
It has suited the directors to hide behind this scandal. Bruce Black, Derrick Brown & co sold the shares at any cost and landed us in an impossible situation that we still cannot get out of, over ten years later. Lie after lie was told to hide the shares deal and the facts only came out in media reports . Black and Brown remain loyal to Rankine. They have a lot to answer for.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Prince Prawn

What a load o smiddy pish by someone who is under the delusion that fans with nae money are going to save the club. Will that be the fans who try to get in the concession gate when not eligible, or the ones that frequently state they won't be back?


Hiya Jocky, hiya pal.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Assuming all the share stuff gets resolved either with the Trust as the majority shareholder or through a consortium, what honestly does the future hold? Will we ever have the resources to become a championship club or would we doomed to being one of those well run community clubs forever plying our trade in the bottom league like a Montrose or an Elgin? That to me would be a pointless existence but could East Fife realistically do a Ross County, even a Queen of the South? Maybe aspiring to the giddy heights of Cowdenbeath or Alloa level should be our aim.

£143 million jackpot for Euromillions on Tuesday. Now if only one of us could win that....

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

How about we combine with Raith, cowden, maybe even the Pars and have a go as Fife United.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

The frightening thing that came to light yesterday was the real possibility of liquidation. Some one has a lot to answer for, to watch that utter garbage that was served up week after week last season has taken this once great club to its knees. According to the last set of financial figures before the revolution we had a debt of 20000, as was said an end of season payment from the sfa would have taken us back to near even. Now as we learned yesterday the figure of debt being spoken about was 100000. So by my reckoning the cost of relegation to the basement league has cost us 100k. The interm board at least are prepared to put their money where their mouth is to try and save the club from going over the cliff. I plead to all people with a love for East Fife to buy a ticket for the Rangers game on Tuesday. Put all things aside no matter if your 2nd team is Celtic , and you don't want to take part in the circus. Your club needs you and this 20 quid could make a massive difference. It would take the pressure of and bring in much needed revenue to pay wages and buses for away games. I know it is a lot for one game but think on it as a pledge to your football club.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Fan67,

I share those concerns, and the situation looks very bleak indeed.

If the directors are putting their own cash in to part fund the bid then that would be quite remarkable. It wasn't stated how they were funding it so we can only make assumptions. The bid by the 4 directors is to take control of the club. The problem of the debt and getting the club back on a sound footing will still remain.

I'm still none the wiser as to why the directors are willing to rush the bid through and why they are willing to meet the crazy price the seller is looking for. The directors bid relys on a 50% funding from the supporters..... yet without any prior engagement or analysis if the supporters can indeed provide these funds, a bid has been submitted. Seems rushed to me. However the EFSS look to be sticking to their own timetable so that is some comfort at least.

The price and the non-returnable deposit, looks like a good deal for the seller, and a very bad deal for anyone putting their money into it. Perhaps the seller might even loan some of that deposit to get it off the ground - who knows? To me, this deal looks structured to profit the owners with monies from fear laiden fans perhaps not savvy in the ways of business. The squareknot fund and money pledged to EFSS must look very tasty to anyone out there that sees struggling football clubs as a prime target for their own profiteering.

I hope that the directors take time to ponder the sentiments of collaboration that were prevalent at Saturday's meeting. My own assessment of their bid is that while their heart is in the right place, their money will go to the owners pocket and do nothing for the betterment of East Fife. I hope they reconsider and instead work with the EFSS so that we can find a solution together.

The supporters do need to get behind the any new East fife. Although league games would be a better cause to rally round as with cup games the gate is split.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

In my opinion the best way forward for the club would be to have fan ownership as the EFSS had outlined at the first meeting and if the existing board want to give the money they have to assist the EFSS in taking over the club that would be fine as long as the EFSS has the final say in all things relating to East fife. Anything other than fan ownership is a non starter.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

boaby lover
In my opinion the best way forward for the club would be to have fan ownership as the EFSS had outlined at the first meeting and if the existing board want to give the money they have to assist the EFSS in taking over the club that would be fine as long as the EFSS has the final say in all things relating to East fife. Anything other than fan ownership is a non starter.

That's a novel idea, the old dinosaurs will hand over their hard earned cash to the fans who have no cash and no idea of how to run a club and let them run it. Might catch on but I doubt it, methinks the old adage "too many cooks spoil the broth" would bring about the demise of the club quicker. Trying to get a decision on how to do something would be like getting the kirk committee to make a decision. Look about and stop dreaming there are very little (if any) successful fan run clubs and if they are they are, they are in cities with fans who have money and some business nous. Who are going to lead us into Utopia!!!!!

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

????
boaby lover
In my opinion the best way forward for the club would be to have fan ownership as the EFSS had outlined at the first meeting and if the existing board want to give the money they have to assist the EFSS in taking over the club that would be fine as long as the EFSS has the final say in all things relating to East fife. Anything other than fan ownership is a non starter.

That's a novel idea, the old dinosaurs will hand over their hard earned cash to the fans who have no cash and no idea of how to run a club and let them run it. Might catch on but I doubt it, methinks the old adage "too many cooks spoil the broth" would bring about the demise of the club quicker. Trying to get a decision on how to do something would be like getting the kirk committee to make a decision. Look about and stop dreaming there are very little (if any) successful fan run clubs and if they are they are, they are in cities with fans who have money and some business nous. Who are going to lead us into Utopia!!!!!


I agree. If posting on here that the fans will save the club, why don't those posting this sentiment put a figure on what they themselves would be prepared to invest, which is money that could be controlled by others that may not have invested a single penny? That may give some idea of just how much is possible to raise from the fans?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

The "new" East Fife, (if indeed there is one), will be funded (either in part of in whole) by the supporters.

Both the Directors bid and EFSS bid rely on this.

The supporters input at least £150K annually to the club's revenue.....and are active in raising what they can to get control of the club, pay off its debt and get working capital in place.

So to state that the supporters have no money is very wide of the mark. It is the supporters money that keeps this club alive...... it is the directors money that keeps them in the position of director.

The mindset of "I've bought my shares so it's my club" is very misguided. You may own some shares, but the club will always belong to its supporters. This is something I tried to explain to Derrick Brown many years ago. I hope the current directors do not share this mindset.

I share those reservations about a fan owned club......but that does not mean it can't be a success. The EFSS seem well aware of the difficulties faced when running a club....... hence the offer to the Directors to form a joint board.

I hope those directors reconsider that offer and work with the supporters so that a new east fife can be formed. The alternative..... which is very real......is that east fife go out of business.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Ringo


I agree. If posting on here that the fans will save the club, why don't those posting this sentiment put a figure on what they themselves would be prepared to invest, which is money that could be controlled by others that may not have invested a single penny? That may give some idea of just how much is possible to raise from the fans?


Donating (let's call it that since "investing" isn't really the right terminology here) ..... Donating via the EFSS means that you would have a say - 1 member one vote. I think they call it democracy (although I'd still insist that over 65s don't get a vote).

Donating via the Directors bid gives you no say. None. Hee-haw.

The supporters cash, both in revenue and this one-time donation, is what keeps the club alive. Isn't it then sensible that the supporters have a say in how their club is run? Is that really so objectionable?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Ringo
????
boaby lover
In my opinion the best way forward for the club would be to have fan ownership as the EFSS had outlined at the first meeting and if the existing board want to give the money they have to assist the EFSS in taking over the club that would be fine as long as the EFSS has the final say in all things relating to East fife. Anything other than fan ownership is a non starter.

That's a novel idea, the old dinosaurs will hand over their hard earned cash to the fans who have no cash and no idea of how to run a club and let them run it. Might catch on but I doubt it, methinks the old adage "too many cooks spoil the broth" would bring about the demise of the club quicker. Trying to get a decision on how to do something would be like getting the kirk committee to make a decision. Look about and stop dreaming there are very little (if any) successful fan run clubs and if they are they are, they are in cities with fans who have money and some business nous. Who are going to lead us into Utopia!!!!!


I agree. If posting on here that the fans will save the club, why don't those posting this sentiment put a figure on what they themselves would be prepared to invest, which is money that could be controlled by others that may not have invested a single penny? That may give some idea of just how much is possible to raise from the fans?


I'm sure that the EFSS have already asked fans if they would donate a lump sum and a further question of how much they'd like to pay monthly. Given how much they've put together already, it would be hard to believe they've not researched that. So, in other words, maybe the fans you're asking to declare what they're going to do have already pledged.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Noisy_Crossbar
Ringo


I agree. If posting on here that the fans will save the club, why don't those posting this sentiment put a figure on what they themselves would be prepared to invest, which is money that could be controlled by others that may not have invested a single penny? That may give some idea of just how much is possible to raise from the fans?


Donating (let's call it that since "investing" isn't really the right terminology here) ..... Donating via the EFSS means that you would have a say - 1 member one vote. I think they call it democracy (although I'd still insist that over 65s don't get a vote).

Donating via the Directors bid gives you no say. None. Hee-haw.

The supporters cash, both in revenue and this one-time donation, is what keeps the club alive. Isn't it then sensible that the supporters have a say in how their club is run? Is that really so objectionable?


Surely you can't expect people to 'donate' substantial sums of money, only to be at the mercy of others running the club, which could result in your donation being a total waste of good money should it go tits up? I know it sounds great when we say the supporters should run the club, but I worry about that. It depends on which supporters it is and they would have to be pretty astute to avoid a complete melt down. Where would money come from after the donations, should more money be needed, for example? Apart from that, how many managers would we go through in a season, if the wrong ones were in control?
Bear in mind, the revenue (from the fans), does not support the running of the club at present and requires the help good sponsorship. It is going to need donations of a lot more than the level of the square-knot pledges and I don't think there are enough fans willing to part with more than £1k. On paper, there are around 4-500 regular fans who, if they all donated £1k, would make the trusts job of buying the club a damn site easier, but how many of that 4-500 could afford it, let alone be willing to pay it? You are going to need much larger donations from those that can afford it and willing to pay it, to be anywhere near the amount that the trust needs, if they want to be sole owners.

With regard to the directors bid, they have invited the trust to part of their bid, not the other way around I understand? Correct me if I have got that wrong. Therefore, it looks like the trust would have a strong degree of control on the board should there be a joint bid with them and I think that would probably be the best outcome to ensure the survival of East Fife?

As someone said earlier, better if one of us wins the Euro-millions tonight - problem solved!

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Ringo

Surely you can't expect people to 'donate' substantial sums of money, only to be at the mercy of others running the club, which could result in your donation being a total waste of good money should it go tits up?


Exactly - that's one of the reasons I won't be backing the Directors holding company bid. The EFSS bid at least gives the donators a say.

Ringo

I know it sounds great when we say the supporters should run the club, but I worry about that. It depends on which supporters it is and they would have to be pretty astute to avoid a complete melt down.


Agreed.

Ringo

Where would money come from after the donations, should more money be needed, for example?


That challenge is faced by any bidder. Any bid that I put my tuppence into would need to properly apportion funds between buying the shares (there's £1 gone), satisfying the creditors, and having working capital to get the venture off the ground. There would also need to be a business plan that I could believe in. This is a one-shot donation so it has to be right.

Ringo

Apart from that, how many managers would we go through in a season, if the wrong ones were in control?


Whomever runs the new east fife will no doubt face the same senseless calls to sack the manager. If the board are capable of raising funds and working out a business plan, I'm sure they are capable of keeping a sensible head when it comes to the manager.

Ringo

Bear in mind, the revenue (from the fans), does not support the running of the club at present and requires the help good sponsorship. It is going to need donations of a lot more than the level of the square-knot pledges and I don't think there are enough fans willing to part with more than £1k. On paper, there are around 4-500 regular fans who, if they all donated £1k, would make the trusts job of buying the club a damn site easier, but how many of that 4-500 could afford it, let alone be willing to pay it? You are going to need much larger donations from those that can afford it and willing to pay it, to be anywhere near the amount that the trust needs, if they want to be sole owners.


Agreed.....but it is about raising as much as possible and taking it from there. That is why even if the 400K price from the owners was fair (which it isn't), it can't be met.

Ringo

With regard to the directors bid, they have invited the trust to part of their bid, not the other way around I understand? Correct me if I have got that wrong. Therefore, it looks like the trust would have a strong degree of control on the board should there be a joint bid with them and I think that would probably be the best outcome to ensure the survival of East Fife?


There was an invite but I do not believe the control structure was 50-50. That aside, the timing, amount, and lack of business plan makes the directors bid a non-starter (for me at least).

Ringo

As someone said earlier, better if one of us wins the Euro-millions tonight - problem solved!


Trust me - having £100m in the bank isn't all it's cracked up to be. Even the big issue seller won't give me a discount anymore

Note: I am not part of the EFSS and I am not speaking for them. Just a fan with an opinion......dangerous thing that

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

How are you able to state there is a lack of a business plan with the directors bid?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

To clarify, there may be a business plan but it has not been presented to those they seek investment from.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Are you sure? Those would be EFSS I would imagine? Have they said that?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Perhaps the director's business plan has been shared with the EFSS board....but to my knowledge it has not been shared with the supporters.

And if I understood the directors bid, they seek investment from the supporters to buy up the 1.25% chunks that make up the 50% of the holding company.

The get donators on board, the business plan will need to be opened up for scrutiny. Donators need to have confidence that their donation is going to be well used.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Ringo
Are you sure? Those would be EFSS I would imagine? Have they said that?


There has been no mention of a business plan from directors at any public meeting. EFSS have said they're preparing one. Nothing of such a plan from club.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

statto
Ringo
Are you sure? Those would be EFSS I would imagine? Have they said that?


There has been no mention of a business plan from directors at any public meeting. EFSS have said they're preparing one. Nothing of such a plan from club.


These were EFSS public meetings, so were any questions raised at these meetings about the directors business plan?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Yip.

A question was asked about the debt - something that any bussiness plan must be geared to tackle.

EFSS board deferred the question to the directors. Directors declined to answer the question.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Which directors were at the meeting and declined to answer the question about the debt? Also, the debt is not the business plan which I asked the question about above? Were any questions asked about the directors business plan?

What about the EFSS business plan, was that queried and answers given by them?

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

I understand that the EFSS is being put together.

Don't worry - it will be questioned I'm sure!!

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

Why are you not criticising the trust, but criticising the board who are private individuals? It's seems very strange that at an EFSS organised public meeting, you are asking private individuals i.e. the board of directors, finance information and are not happy at their answers, yet no complaint of the trusts position in regard to their financial information?? You are happy to give the trust all the time in the world, but want an immediate response from the directors?

I am sorry to say, but either you are a senior member of the trust e.g. on their committee, or someone with an underhand reason to get information for your own ends? You might be an honest fan with no financial interest in the club, but you sure are doing your utmost to discredit the board, but not the trust, for keeping financial information to themselves.

Re: EFSS - Buy East Fife Meeting

How is asking a question to the directors ....who were present in their capacity as directors not as private individuals.....either a criticism or trying to discredit them. It is simply a question.....and one that will be answered in time anyway. And you are correct, I was asking the question for my own ends.......to decide whether to donate to their bid or not.

Like any business it's product will be scruitanised by its customers.

By being director of a football club your actions will always be scrutinised by the supporters of that football club. And that scrutiny should be welcomed not feared.

It looks to me that the directors should be appealing to supporters for help....not just financial. Blind faith in the directors will not be forthcoming. And understandably so given that the directors are part responsible for the situation we are in. (Do you agree? )

The directors need to get onside with the supporters, and IMO the EFSS is the best vehicle for doing this.

Derrick brown made the mistake of treating the customers with contempt - I hope the present directors don't make the same mistake.