I have supported East Fife all my life. They are my only team. However, with goings on off the park, it looks a very real prospect that East Fife will be no more. Will I fight to save them…..yes……but only if I believe it is a fight that can be won.

There is only one shot at this. Whatever funds the fans can raise is all there will be. And it may not be enough. Let’s say at a push, 40K can be raised……is this enough to buy control, pay the debt and get things up and running again…..probably not. Even with directors putting their own money into the pot as well, will it be enough…..maybe enough to gain control, but then what? Owning a sinking ship doesn’t stop it sinking.

Can we afford to pay off the owners over a longer period…….perhaps, but at what cost. We’d have to divert a portion of the ever decreasing revenue away from the playing budget to do this. And as the team gets worse season after season, revenues go down further and further until be arrive back to where we are now.

If we can find an option that works then great. But right now I really don’t see this happening. I hope I am wrong.

Let’s jump ahead for a moment and consider that this is not a fight that can be won. Do we fight anyway, or do we take a different approach…… is it a better path to look at starting a new football club?

The pain felt by East Fife is a pain felt by all clubs. Fundamentally resources have been squeezed to a point were clubs are no longer viable. I believe the root of this lies in globalization. Twenty-thirty years ago there would have been a harem of local businessman vying for the chance to get involved with their local team…….globalization has decimated the local business community – sure a few of these guys are still around but they no longer have the disposable income to throw away in the pursuit of footballing glory.

The effects of this are very visible. The standard of football across Scotland has deteriorated so quickly. The 3rd division 10 years ago had better football than most of the teams in the championship are offering today.

If we want local football, and if we want that football to be at standard we can enjoy, then drastic change is needed.

The takeover attempt(s) are a real acid test of what resources east fife have. If we cannot raise enough to save the club, should we instead look at combining our limited resources (one time donations and annual revenue of ~150k) with our Fife neighbors? It’s a thought that I would have dismissed immediately a few months ago but because of the situation we are in, it is not something I can easily dismiss anymore.

Putting money into something that looks destined to fail is not something I will do. Nor can we ignore the realities of the situation we are in and the path we are on. Perhaps combining with Raith, Cowden, whoever might be the only option that has a chance of achieving something? The inverness teams took this brave step many years ago - albeit in different circumstances but it clearly was the right choice for them.

Clearly we look first at making the best out of the takeover…..but if it can’t be done, then what?

The bigger "hand that feeds" the club is the supporters is it not....to the tune of £150k to £200k a year.

Try working your calculation out again NC. Remember, not every fan pays £13 to get in. Average it out at around £10 a fan, which would be more accurate. Even at £13/fan x a generous estimate of 600/game x 18 league games only comes to around £140k. What is the average wage of the first team? If it was £100 x 16 players x 36 games, that equals around £60k, but I would guess they get paid a bit more than that. Add on top the costs for the stadium 18 times a season, plus away game costs x 18, it soon becomes apparent that the money coming in from the fans alone, is not enough to survive on, especially when we can hardly muster 400 against Threave Rovers. What happened to the other fans not at that game, who you say are the only real people who care about East Fife?

The standard of football this season is very poor. I am surprised crowds have not been lower, which says a lot for the loyalty of supporters. Anyway, what do you expect after relegation? Of course some people are going to be hacked off.
As for a game against piss-poor Threave Rivers. The Third Division opposition is unattractive enough without also asking fans to watch a pub team in the name of senior football.
East Fife fans are sick of year after year of turning up to watch shite. Give them at last a reason to be proud of their team and they wil turn up, win lose or draw.

I was shocked to see these figures following Saturdays meeting.

"After the meeting the EFSS checked its shareholder copy of the accounts for the previous few seasons.
2013 Loss of £26,000 despite getting £140,000 from the tie at Ibrox
2012 Loss of £13,000 despite £40,000+ from tie at Pittodrie
2011 Loss of £38,000
2010 Loss of £125,000"

Who the hell has been setting the club budget for the past five years? And what are they budgeting for?? The fact that someone has been able to allow such huge losses despite some decent windfalls in the cups in unforgivable. No wonder we are up shit creek.

Hopefully any takeover will throw up someone who can actually count to do this job in future.

The fans might well struggle to raise money Ringo, but why on earth would anyone trust the board? Some of these guys have been present over the last five years whilst we'd have lost nearly £380,000 without if it wasn't for a couple of cup ties. Fair enough if we'd lost all that money and were now a lower mid-table Championship side, but we've spent all that to become a mediocre bottom tier side.

Where did all the money go? When it came down to laying out a budget at the start of each season, who sat down, looked at the previous seasons figures and decided to lose tens of thousands more?

Until quite recently a lot was made about the club being "debt free". At what point does over £300k of unexpected bills pop up?

Ringo, are you against the supporters having a say in how their club is run?

As I have said Ringo, your opinions chime with the embarrasing directors who talked so much shit on Saturday.

You couldn't have picked a worse example if you tried Ringo.
Rangers had a massive fanbase but were largely such a subservient lot that they failed to prevent their club from going bust.
East Fife supporters, smaller by far in number, have organised themselves in the recent past to send a previous chairman packing and are in the process of doing so again to save the club from going under.

We shall prevail.

Ringo we have been dire for 25 years give or take the odd season. In that time we have spent one, yes a measly one, season in the second tier of the game. Many of those years have been spent in the bottom league. How many years have clubs that we used to call our peers (Falkirk, Raith, QoS, Morton etc) spent in the basement leagues in that time? Next to none. Cowdenbeath and Alloa have played more seasons at a higher level than us in that time. I dare say Brechin has too. We have slid so far over the years that we cannot even compete with the likes of them never mind the Rovers.

Frankly anyone who still watches and supports East Fife even on a semi regular basis deserves a fucking medal, not your condemnation.

Ringo you should get together with John Donaldson. Your outlook and opinions are so similar you would get on like a house on fire. In fact I am surprised John has not been in touch.

What exactly are you alluding to? Why don't you find out the operating costs and consider how much worse off the club would be if we did not have these big ties? You can't just pick one set of figures, the losses, and wonder about why that. You now have to look at the operating costs, then you might understand a bit better. I don't know if you can obtain these figures, but it all goes hand in hand and you need to know the full picture before you point fingers at people.

Why don't you just be a good boy and go to watch 'your' team every week? No, you would rather stir up shite on this forum under the pretence that you care for East Fife. The fans just won't raise enough to run the club on their own at the present time, that is obvious. Yet you continue to try and alienate the only group so far, that is willing to work hand in hand with the fans. What is going on in your head?

Is there a director on the current board in charge of finance ie suggests a budget for each year or does it not work Like that? Somebody surely has to take responsibility for the current financial situation .

"Hounded". Really? Being asked some fair and direct questions is hardly being hounded.

"Jelious"? Come on.

Ringo, do you think that supporters should have a say in the running of their club?

Yes.

Where have I posted condemning the directors?

As you say, the directors bid is the only bid - can't ask questions s of the EFSS bid as it is not there......yet.

I'm happy with the timetable of the EFSS bid.

I won't be backing the directors bid. Not because of the people involved but because the bid is wrong in terms of timing, value, and structure. I see no need for a holding company - look at how this has tied up Livingston and Dumbarton. There is even talks of one of the individuals in the Dumbarton holding company being sued by Rankine. Not a road to go down.

I liked the directors' repeated threat to lock up the stadium and hand back the keys to the owner. Why not do it? It would bring the situation to a head and force the owner's hand.
The trouble is that the directors don't have the balls to do that. What they really want is to cling on to their positions, without the involvement of supporters if possible. Their threats to walk away are empty.

I've no financial information, so I can't comment on most of the posts in this thread. I'm waiting for such information to emerge before I can decide if I'd support EFSS, or and EFSS/directors combined bid. In case of the latter, someone will have to 'sell' me on the benefits of the holding company plan.

To address the title post of this thread, I agree things look bad, and we might not come out of this. I've also been thinking of a 'plan B'. Although I'd prefer a new team in East Fife rather than a merger with Cowden or Raith.

I think I am a trust member. I certainly helped with starting the trust over 10 years ago but it has been sometime since I attended a trust meeting. I joined the supporters club for a season so that I could attend last summer's takeover meeting. I am also a member of the B.U.R.G.E.R. although I may be suspended for breaching the diciplinnary code.

I'm not a former director, nor wish to be future director. I have no interest in the land nor any personal vendetta with any of the directors. I'm not in the 1938 travel club, millennium club, or young fifers. I'm not a shareholder but this might change. I'm not a player but there is always hope.

Does that cover it?

Can we move on now - I really don't see why it matters who I am. What matters is the future of East Fife.

In my opinion the directors bid is flawed. That is in no way an attack on the directors.

I'vemade no posts aimed at forcing any directors out of East fife (well not since McNeil went) ....... However, if I felt that any director was working against the supporters or doing anything to the detriment of the club I support, then I would certainly be very vocal.

As it stands I think the best way forward is for the directors to withdraw their bid and get on board with the EFSS. I can't say it clearer than that - no tone, no ulterior motive, no clever use of words.

Okay NC, what can the EFSS offer the directors and the many other shareholders, should they get the major shareholders to lower their price, which I doubt they will to be honest, to get them onside with them? Indeed, will they care about the small shareholder in pursuit of their dream?

That scenario would mean I guess, that the price of their shares will be worth much less than they paid? They could end up having a chairman called The Dude, Noisy_Crossbar, FFS, Pieman, maybe SPF (now there's a blast from the past, eh?), who may have donated a pittance to the cause, but they effectively are in control of the club and the many smaller shareholders, who may well have several thousands of pounds worth of shares are at the mercy of their idea of how to run a football club.

What will be the criteria required, of which EFSS members will take up the places on the future EFSS board? What safeguards will be put in place, to prevent the possibility of a Trust cleek developing, similar to the AFTN cleek, forming the future East Fife board of directors? I certainly would like to see some safeguards in place, otherwise the clubs future could be put at risk, as the true ordinary fans with no desire to have power at the club, will soon realise if there is an elite group of fans who elect their friends into these positions of trust, as board members. There is no doubt that a cleek exists on AFTN and I for one will be very wary of the future if this cleek get into senior positions within East Fife. I wouldn't trust many of them as far as I could throw them, after reading their bile on AFTN.

On the other hand, if the correct safeguards are put in place and we truly get fans who really do put East Fife first, maybe have an attendance card for games they attend , to ensure we will never get the 'I won't be back types, what about reduced gate prices types, my hard earned cash types, why don't the board subsidise the bus's types, and the multitude of other reasons they complain about types, and there are only a few of them posting that tripe, anywhere near the control regime at East Fife. It would be the clubs death warrant.

"The Board would like to emphasise that we have duties to all our Shareholders and are required to act on their behalf at all times."

From today's club statement. That's admirable, and exactly the sort of attitude we'd expect from directors if we, the fans were majority shareholders. It may explain why they're keen to press ahead with an offer that meets the majority shareholders valuation.

Wrong, wrong, correct -(names).

I am not giving any grief to any potential EFSS bid, which I hope ends up, if indeed it ever sees the light of day, to be in the best interest of all parties and East Fife FC. Nothing would please me more.

In contrast to those slating the current board for just about everything, including their bid, I am not. I am also, not slating the EFSS. I can't be bothered to look back in AFTN, but the EFST have also been slated on these pages many times and most likely by the same ones currently slating the directors.

I am however, slating the posters who are constantly criticising the board, while at the same time, have no idea if the EFSS bid will ever materialise. So 'pot in kettle', read the posts before you post inaccuracies. Due diligence is of no consequence, to what I am posting. Of course, you will post anything at all whether it is inaccurate or not, about anything/anybody, if they challenge your rabid imaginations.

Ringo,

I think you miss the point of AFTN. It is a place for supporters to express opinions. The opinions I read here are the same ones I hear at bayview, in the street in the pub. Perhaps it is the opinion's of the supporters you object to rather than AFTN.

As for cleeks on AFTN - the only cleeks that I see is when some one posts under multiple usernames to agree with themselves.

However, let's put that part of the discussion to one side and instead talk about how we move forward.

The announcement on the east fife website yesterday suggests that some reassurance is required before the directors can commit to working with the EFSS. Let me try and offer that now.

The supporter's trust was at its most active when it's members (the supporters) had decided that Derrick Brown needed to be removed I remember being at trust meetings when one of those members, john Barclay, advised us one how we might tackle the problem, and that advice was well received. John Barclay was certainly able to work with the supporters then, and I have no doubt he will be able to work with them going forward.

During the Derrick brown removal, Dave Marshall, (who may have also been a trust member) came out to the mound to speak with fans. This gesture will never be forgotten and I remember the pain he expressed at when at the club being pulled apart. I'm sure Dave will again strive for unity for the best interests of the club he has supported all his life. I remember Dave at old bayview when I started attending 30 odd years ago. Dave is part of the fittings at east fife and will be here in the new era as well - I'm sure of it.

Jim Stevenson has all the battle scars and experience from just about every east fife board room I can recall. That experience and savy will be extremely valuable going forward. There is no doubt we need Jim on board to get things moving.

I've stated here many times that a joint bid is the way forward and I hope that the club board can work with the EFSS board going forward. The past is the past - learn from it, but not live in it. It is the future that matters and I hope that those men big enough to rise above past insults will do so and get on with solving this thing.

Sorry, I disagree with what you are saying, which is defending outright accusations behind the curtain of this forum. Ageism has also been expressed, which is a sad reflection of the younger generation in this 'modern' age.

As for multiple names, I can well believe that when I see what looks to be like a cleekish element on the forum, almost exclusively the anti-director brigade, or is it person??

Anyway, I agree, let's put that part of the discussion to one side and look for the common ground.

The mere fact that you are acknowledging the dedication of the directors you mention to East Fife, offers hope, if as I believe you are, one of the main protagonists of the EFSS bid, should it materialise. Maybe you can understand why I am fighting their corner against the bile and insults being directed their way on this forum?

Onwards and upwards, eh?

To answer the OP's original question...

A lost cause mate.
Take up golf.

Club is finished.

What board member are you Ringo? Why do you keep defending directors who are partly responsible for getting us into this mess in the first place? It's a pity we didn't have a supporter/supporters with a bit financial clout who can spearhead a takeover and take full control and get rid of current board. I fear the club is at deaths door and the continuous shite we have to watch year after year will drive fans away. Just a big fucking shambles really....

Ringo,

What's with paranoia? My agenda is very clear - save east fife.

The supporters who post on here are expressing an opinion. I'd hope the directors would take the opinion of their customers on board.

Ok you may see them as trolls, "moaners", "what can I get for free types" , "ordinary" and "elite" but I can assure you this class hierarchy does not exist in the east fife support. Directors and supportes are all in the same boat - no room for the "I'm better than you" attitude - it's very damaging.

Rather than discuss what's not been said, how about you comment on why the directors bid is the right one? Why now, why the price, why the holding company?

And re the EFSS bid, I have expressed concerns about both the amount it can raise, who is going to run it and how an annual surplus can be achieved.

Ringo, i'm sure the directors are big enough and ugly enough to look after themselves without you babysitting them toots.
Bless your concern though.

Opinions?

I refer you to the post just above yours. The confused chappie would like a supporter/supporters with financial clout to take over the club. What a brilliant idea!! He didn't mention he would help himself by the way. It surely is very obvious that such individuals do not exist, or we would have heard about them by now.

Currently 4 x directors have attempted to put together a means of buying the majority shareholding, to include the EFSS, which seems to be a reasonably sensible way forward, but may need fine tuning. Unfortunately, bitterness seems to rule the head on AFTN and the vitriol that has ensued, puts at risk the directors offer and it may well be withdrawn. That would be a considerable chunk of the funds required to purchase the majority shareholding. Where would that leave the EFSS bid? Reading between the lines, there are simply not enough people willing to 'donate' to their bid, otherwise it would be on the table by now, no question about that.

I suggest you use any influence you may have on AFTN, to persuade the (sorry, but trolls seems to be the best description), to keep all parties who want to see the club survive, onside. The constant shit being posted is NOT helping to save their club. That is the club they profess to love and support. They thought the saviour arrived last season, but look at us now.

Why the price? Because that is what the MJ have said they want.
Why now? Because the opportunity to buy is there.
When do you want to buy it:-
When the club has folded? Too late!
When the club is on an even keel or better? It will cost more!
Why the holding company? I guess because no group/groups can come up with the full asking price and that is the only way that can make it happen?

Can I ask you a question?

Please describe your plan for the majority shareholding purchase? By that, you will have to give valid reasons on how that could be achieved. Remember, you are attempting to buy from people who are well used to financial dealings and will drive a hard bargain if they are very rich. I would guess that they would not tolerate any take it or leave it threats. They would simply hold on to what they have already got.

Over to you NC.

Listen,
it`s all a load of old flannel.
Fan ownership will never happen and neither will a bid from the current directrs amount to anything.
All pie in the sky.

All this is doing is detracting from the fact Naysmith is a donkey and team is shite.

Nothing new there.

Different season, same old garbage.

Glad i walked away months ago.

Plus Ringo is connected to the board in some way and used to call himself Jocky on here.
Either way, he's an utter cock of the highest order and boring as fuck.

Over and out.

Sainsbury example isn't the right one. In terms of UK football clubs, they're a Liverpool, or Manchester United. They used to be just England based, but recently there's kids wearing their strips all over Levenmouth.

East Fife are more your struggling independent village grocery store. Once, we were able to sell all the groceries/match tickets there were to sell in this town, but now it's full of Sainsbury carrier bags and Sky subscriptions.

The village grocery store may have to close forever soon, which would be a travesty for the remaining band of village store customers. It would seem it's no longer possible to make a profit in the current market conditions with the present ownership model.

One possible way forward, that's being considered by village stores and fitba clubs alike, is to become community owned. The customers of a small fitba club/shop are the one group prepared to put in their money and get their dividend in kind rather than cash.

The plan to buy the majority shareholding is very simple. Create a stalemate and see who blinks first. They won't sell.....we won't buy.

Here is the response:

Dear lolly and sammy. We acknowledge your statement about wishing to see east fife become a community club. We acknowledge your invitation to purchase your shareholding for £400,000. We have conducted a financial audit of the club. While we are keen to operate a community club in the levenmouth area, we are neither willing nor able to meet your valuation of the club.

Regards,

Mr Noisy Crossbar Esq.
EFSS oligarch in waiting.


Then, open up a dialog with the club's creditors.

That's the way I'd play it. In a buyers market, the seller dances to the buyer's tune.

And in any market, the perceived wealth of either party is irrelevant. It's a commonly made mistake - ah, they're loaded, I'll get a better price.....,nope, doesn't work like that.

For £100 Ringo I'll give you a 1 hour seminar on buying and selling....for £500 I'll do it in the buff.

Not wanting to comment on the strategy for buying the club - you did ask after all. Looks abit different to the one of pay-the-seller-what-they-want-from-funds-you-don't-have-and-worry-about-the-debt-later-strategy that's on offer at the moment.

Ringo, do you think that perhaps within the East Fife support there might be people with better ideas, talents and combined financial resources than what the 4 directors have?

I think if you really want the fans to get involved, you are risking that by your idea of how to do business? There is no harm in trying to get the best deal, but much earlier posts, was suggesting getting it for peanuts almost. That simply won't happen unfortunately.

there may be a chance that the Majority shareholders would consider it, but I have my doubts.

You are again having a veiled go at the directors again. Do you not think that they have financial advisers as well? As for the better ideas, I've yet to see or hear of them. I am seriously not against the supporters being very involved with running the club, I would love to see it, but it must be done responsibly and starting with, lets screw the sellers as much as possible, is not showing a lot of responsibilty is it? That is pub talk!

So will you be seeking ideas from the supporters? If so, when and how?

NC and cloud cuckoo land sound about right. The shareholders have the final say in what happens to the club. To suggest they will sell for a minimal amount is ridiculous. Even if we go into administration and bankruptcy the club still has the asset of the land. I know the accountants are only saying it is worth 150k but this is at what agricultural or brownfield valuation? With planning permission it is worth much more. So the shareholders can stand possibly to gain at least more than a million. Why then are they now willing to sell for 400k? The Rankine hearing may have something to do with it or they nee to offload fo some other reason but I can't see them selling for much less than the asking price. Maybe around 300k to cover their outgoings.

The land is zoned for non-retail employment generating use. Bounded on 3 sides by similarly zoned vacant sites.

Planning permission could be obtained for the patch of ground over the wall. All you need is an employment generating business prepared to invest. The planning committee would love that.

Planning permission for demolishing the ground or car-parks could be a little more problematic. It probably wouldn't go down well at the ballot box.

Oh, I see. The 52% is really worth £1m. Ah, in that case the directors are getting a bargain.

Why is it we get the odd poster on here trying to talk up the price? As if anything said on here will have any bearing on the price.

The owners have ruled out reinvesting to clear the debt (see lee murray's resignation statement). So that leaves option 2 and 3.

The option of holding on doesn't exist when the debt is being called in.

Neil says lolly is a wealthy woman. I didn't know the lochgelly tawse business could be so profitable.

You can deny it all you like Ringo, I would expect nothing else.
You and the rest of the directors cannot fund a bid so there has been an extremely reluctant discussion with the EFSS. How do you hope to get supporters to buy into a director-led bid when you persistently criticise the very people you need? You show so much contempt for East Fife fans that you are ruining what little chance there is of a united bid.
Show me the people who are agreement with you on this forum. You better start making up some fresh aliases to back you up. Where are Jocky and Interested when you need them?

You need to stop these imaginations of yours, it is not healthy basing your statements on untruths and no basis of fact. You have to stop it fed up fan. By the way, where did the username fed up fan come from? Surely you haven't been using that username for all the posts you have made on AFTN? Or have you been a fed up fan all the time? Are you sure you haven't been using another username before now S... em.. sorry, fed up fan?

I am not criticising the fans, only those trolls who have nothing better to do than criticise the current board of directors on this forum. And I will state again, we are only talking of a very few of your type of 'fan'.

You are also not reading my posts very well, because I have stated many times that there is nothing more I would want to see than a fan involvement in the board, but again as I have also said, we cannot have angry little people on the board of East Fife, or the club will simply fold after a very short time. Those who react and make statements of pure hate against players, management and directors, every time we get beat, are not the type we (fans) want to see on the board.

Where are the like-minded fans who agree with you Ringo? I can only see people who disagree with you. The only people who share your views are directors and of course they do no post on this forum.
Come on Jocky and Interested, this is Ringo's hour of need. Stand up and be counted.

You seem to think that there are a lot of fans around like you? Check the posts you refer to, divide by anything up to at least 5 and you will find that there are very few posting drivel, like you are on AFTN.

The world is NOT AFTN my friend!

This is good progress Ringo. You want nothing better than to see fans involved with running the club. Can you elaborate on how that might look?

That has taken a long time to sink in NC. I have said it many times and you have ignored it? I am no accountant. I am no business man. I am simply a fan who wants to see the club survive.
I am sure that with some of the people on the EFSS bid committee or whatever it may be called, along with the current directors, a workable solution can be found.
I don't believe it is right, or in the best interests of EFFC, that the likes of you are trying to remove the current directors. I think I would be fairly accurate in saying that they have put their hands in their pockets throughout their lives as EFFC supporters and as directors (still as supporters), than most if not all of the EFSS bid committee, to justify their current positions on the board. That is to say nothing about the time they devote to the club daily and the money they continue to put in it. How much time do you devote for example, 90 minutes plus injury time, but only if we are winning?

If you think that is wrong, then you are surely must be a Commie NC?

Ringo, you've said many things, but rather than bring up the past statements that contradict your current position (of wanting to see fans involved in running the club), lets focus in on this position as it is common ground that we share.

The likes of me (whatever that means) are not trying to remove the current board. You'll see many past statements where I think Stevenson, Barclay and of course Marshall should be on the board of the new east fife. I hope we can put that inaccuracy to bed (again).

So can you please elaborate on how do you see it working (i.e. the fans involved in the running of the club)? What structure would the new board take? How are board members selected? Chairperson? Chair have the casting vote?

Remember my past statements were directed at the trolls and not contradictory at all.

Anyway, in every boardroom the length and breadth of the country, there will always be a casting vote. That would usually be the chairman. Whoever that will be is a decision of the board that will be in place. As for the structure of the board, by which I take it you mean how many directors, then that is again the decision of the people who will be brokering the deal when the board is formed. What could be simpler?

Do you as an outsider think you should be dictating what it should be? I don't.

Of course, you could very well be right there in the mix for all I know, god forbid?

I am reading between the lines now, but it appears that you think that it will be like Westminster, with right and left having opposing views, but if the proper responsible people are on the board, then I can see it operating only in the best interests of EFFC, which would mean there are no opposing factions within. If it is people with views like yours, then it would be operated like a mini dictatorship. You obviously want no input from anybody with opposing views to your own. I'm swithering whether to liken you to Hitler or Stalin, but I won't!

Are the supporters to be involved in brokering the deal? If the directors bid is continued, then it would seem not. And if it is those that broker the deal that decide the supporters involvement, it seems more of a master-slave relationship rather than a mutual and equal partnership. Strange since the directors bid was only 25% funded by the directors and 50% funded by the supporters.

You are of course assuming that the supporters would be willing to back this brokered deal. For the reasons I have outlined previously, I won't be. But I am sure you'll use those strong relationships you have with your customers to convince them to back this deal.

Running the club constitutes many things - what bits do you see being run by the supporters? Would you exclude any areas from supporter involvement?

Good to see that you seem to be willing to work with the EFSS board (correct)?

Will you consider withdrawing the directors bid and instead work with the EFSS to combine your efforts and come up with a better combined bid?

What ARE you on about?? Grow up man. Your accusing rubbish is a sign you do not have an argument anymore.

I won't be working for anybody NC. As I said, I am a fan and nothing more. I am assuming nothing, there is an ongoing process by the EFSS and if they decide to do business with the board, then I think that would be for the best. If they don't, then I hope they can be sure of financing the running of the club on their own. I can't understand why they wouldn't want to come to a common agreement with people who are proposing to put in fairly large personal sums of money.
But I will tell you one thing that all of your cleek are forgetting, there is nothing to stop anybody that has put a measly donation into saving the club, from walking away at any time if it suits him, or if he gets pissed off at us losing a game, if they go with your crazy one share or a thousand shares deemed as being worth the same pish. If they have on the other hand donated a significant sum of money, they will try that bitty harder to make sure the club prospers and stay the pace.

In contrast to yourself, I am not trying to dictate to anybody how it should eventually be structured. I will be best pleased to see the directors and the EFSS agree and be satisfied that they are doing what is best for EFFC to survive and hopefully prosper. Whoever runs the club, will need to be responsible and not quite like a fan who has posted recently, one angryfifer. Can you imagine that being part of the controlling group at Bayview? It is a dangerous path when you have a dream like fan ownership and to have a voting system that would give the likes of that as say in decisions at Bayview. Are you serious about that scenario?

To be fair, I'm guessing angryfifer is quite young and immature, which might explain his emotional state, so I take the above back if he is.

Ringo - what part of my post do you read as accusatory? I'll try reword it so that the question I'm asking is crystal clear.

What I'm unclear about is how you propose the supporters are involved with running the club. You've said what you don't want (which is the model the EFSS members seem comfortable with) - what alternative do you see working.

On other bit of common ground - you say we can't have "angry little people" on the board of East fife. I couldn't agree more. No room for the paranoid, the devisive, the defensive. We need people who are open, honest, respectful and inclusive. The sort of people who can build bridges not put up barriers. The new board will have enough external problems to solve without creating internal ones as well.

Glad we are agreeing about so many thing now

Explain this -

You've said what you don't want - which is what??


and this

(which is the model the EFSS members seem comfortable with - what model??

I may be able to answer you if I knew what you are on about.

You've said that you don't want one-member-one-vote apointing the supporters on the East Fife board.

How do you want to see supporters involved in running the club and appointing board members?

Hiya Jocky hiya pal

I`ve enjoyed NC and Jocky`s debate. Been lively and good to see they are at least becoming friendly towards each other.

I think the majority of the support is far wiser than you give credit for. Do you really think the support would stand for someone who did not represent their views or would put their club in jeopardy?

The support is made up in the main of sensible, experienced, clever folk from all walks of life. Within this support there are ideas, a brain pool, manpower as well as collective finances. How best do we harness this?

Finding "room" for someone to give opinion from the terraces isn't really harnessing the resources available and it really limits the positive contribution that supporters could have in running THEIR club.

Is there a better way of getting supporters involved with running their club?

I think this "fear" is without foundation. Particularly when the supporters are willing to work with the existing directors.

Quick clarification. The £26K figure was quoted by John Donaldson at the EFSS meeting. I didn't check it but I am sure there is someone out there who can very quickly confirm the 2012-13 loss.

p.s. all other losses are from the published accounts.

The losses for the past 3 years are as follows:

year to 31 May 2013 £41,030

year to 31 May 2012 £12,791

year to 31 May 2011 £37,724
The cumulative losses are £127,552

Incidentally the average value per share issued before cumulative losses is £3.28.
After cumulative losses , the average value per share issued is £2.64

Thank you.

Ringo, this criteria or set of requirements that you speak of. It is immediately a barrier to collaboration. The minute one party seeks to impose conditions on the other then the partnership is over. To work together we need people who are open, honest, trusting and respectful. This continual dredging and twisting of past events isn't helping. Nor is the belittling of the trust or the doubting of people's intention.

Whatever the root of your misgivings you need to get over it else you'll cause division, conflict and infighting. And I don't mean suppress it until a deal is done then revert to old ways, I mean really get over it. No doubt you'll feel some are on your side - but the truth is there are no sides. As people work together they'll build a relationship and this negative outlook you have will be yours and yours alone.

If the odd post on here upsets you, ignore it. It's easy done. Unfortunately you invite trolling and instead of discussing points of merit you allow yourself to be consumed by the occasional post that upsets you.

East Fife needs people who can work with others - do you think you can do that john?

I'm not looking for a reply but instead please give it some thought.

Over and out.

I have been following this thread for some time without comment but after checking out the EFSS website quite frankly I wouldn't object at all if these guys got their "grubby hands" (as Ringo quite disgracefully put it) on the club.
I have a great deal of respect for the current incumbents in the East Fife boardroom but very little time for individuals such as Ringo who would belittle a group of supporters seeking to bring the club back into the control of those with the interest of East Fife Football Club at heart.
Perhaps Ringo might like to put his head above the parapet and meet EFSS face to face?