Young Gordon posted the following question on the pie and bovril site (http://www.pieandbovril.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=38306).

Since there are a few, but not loads, of Fife fans on that site, I'm sure he won't mind me posting it on here for more of the Fife fans to hear his questions and points of view, as they're obviously important issues and I'm sure he'd like as many answers as possible (although check out the thread as there are a lot of good replies on there already).

Does anyone know if him and his old man bought a tshirt yesterday?:



First off, this is not meant to wind anyone up and I can't be arsed with an arguement so if anybody just wants to have a go, don't bother replying.

In the recent press release, the club say that neither the majority shareholder or the chairman are going to give up their shareholding/position and that the current board will enjoy the support of the majority shareholders for "years to come". So far I have only heard that the single aim of the protests is to get rid of Derrick Brown, do the protestors also want rid of the majority shareholders who give their support to Derrick Brown?

If the current majority shareholders, chairman and board of directors stay in place indefinately, what will the protestors do? Continue protesting on the mound for 1, 10, 20 years?

The club accuse the protestors of having no answers to the "what happens then questions", which the protestors deny. I, along with a lot of supporters have not seen any of the answers from the protestors. What is the ideal scenario for the club post Derrick Brown/ post Twigg/ post Brown and Twigg and how do they plan on acheiving this?

If Derrick Brown does stay in place as chairman and it becomes evident that he will not be removed, will protesters ever consider ceasing the protests or even working with the current board in some capacity, as the press release suggests, or is the breakdown in relations so severe that this can never happen?

Do any protestors beleive that the majority shareholder or the chairman have any desire to see East Fife go out of business?

If the on-field fortunes of East Fife improve dramatically over the next year, will the mound protests still continue?

Does the apparent willingness of the board to sell the Supporters Trust the full allocation of shares which were requested, change anything?

The aim of the protest is obviously to remove Derick Brown, how do the protester see this happening? Do you expect Brown to resign his position due to the pressure the protests put on him? Do you expect the majority shareholder to withdraw Browns proxies? Do you think that other directors have the desire/power to force Brown out?

Firstly his opening comments are similar to tactics used by Brown. You can hear what I say but don't bother replying if you want to contradict me.
I would turn the questions back what would you do? Continue to do nothing whilst your club goes under?
Is it the minority view of protestors that the Chairman is a 'prat', if so where are the 300+ supporters that used to attend games, where is the local business support, where is the outcry in the media supporting Brown if he is so right? There are no hidden agenda's behind the protest the main criteria is to remove the cancer destrying our club. The fact that Derrick now see's fit to sell the Trust shares is irrelevant, the lies and scheming he previously employed to block this sale is common knowledge (in fact your father could if he chooses tell you the real truth as he was a trust board member when this happened) Perhaps the exhaulted position and 'freebies' would now cloud his vision. There are plans afoot that would address the other issues of shareholders, the way forward etc. But I am afraid to cite Derricks favourites saying these are confidential. However, should Brown remain in position then what does the future hold. I would suggest demise and even for you the drying up of freebies because East Fife won't exist.
PS Gordon when the national or local press run positive stories on Brown, when local business, local government officers (except your dad) promote the positive attitude of the chairman. When crowds are queuing to buy season tickets or to get into the stadium. Or you can't book space in the club because of use. When young people feel welcome at Bayview when supporters run buses to games, when any fundraising initiative is oversubscribed. Then please feel free to air your comments again, until then...........Ach I would only be dropping to your level in telling you to keep accepting the 'freebies' ( amazing how two complimentaries cloud the judgement at least the protestors paid to get in).. but shut yer puss

So many question's Gordon! I'm one of the protestors, here is my (personal) response:

GH:"do the protestors also want rid of the majority shareholders who give their support to Derrick Brown?"

I_10:It's difficult to call this one Gordon. It depends what actions they take and what their motives are (i.e why do they want to invest in East Fife?) If the majority shareholders don't share the supporter's desire for a successful football team then yes, I want rid of them too.

GH:"If the current majority shareholders, chairman and board of directors stay in place indefinately, what will the protestors do? Continue protesting on the mound for 1, 10, 20 years?"

I_10:Yes. I've been a season ticket holder for 20 years. I won't buy another on until I see a change in direction and leadership of my club.


GH:"What is the ideal scenario for the club post Derrick Brown/ post Twigg/ post Brown and Twigg and how do they plan on acheiving this?"

I_10: The ideal scenario is to win the European Cup 10 years in a row! But in reality, we must halt the decline, re-organsie the club, create an achievable but ambitious plan for the short/meduim term. Then embark on delivering it. The resources and will to make East Fife a successful team are there, but before this can be harnessed, Brown has to be removed.


GH:"will protesters ever consider ceasing the protests or even working with the current board in some capacity, as the press release suggests, or is the breakdown in relations so severe that this can never happen?"

I_10:Nothing is impossible. Derrick is responsible for the mess we are in - he's also in the position to sort it out. It would take something monumental on his part to change things - I don't think he has either the will or ability to do this.

GH:"Do any protestors beleive that the majority shareholder or the chairman have any desire to see East Fife go out of business?"

I_10:I don't know what their desire is gordon - I've seen little to suggest that it is the same as mine. Why is it that they've choosen to invest in East Fife - because they are East Fife supporter's or beacause they've grasped an opportunity to make money? Selling off the club's assets is a good way to make money.....

GH:"If the on-field fortunes of East Fife improve dramatically over the next year, will the mound protests still continue?"

I_10: For on-field fortunes to improve, a massive change is required at the club. As the last 3 years have shown, Derrick Brwon is not capable of delivering a successful team on the pitch.

GH:"Does the apparent willingness of the board to sell the Supporters Trust the full allocation of shares which were requested, change anything?"

I_10: Not for me. Too small a gesture. And it's too late to try appeasement.

GH:"The aim of the protest is obviously to remove Derick Brown, how do the protester see this happening?

I_10:I honestly think he'll be the master of his own downfall. The bunker mentality has set in, and he's loosing the few friends he had very quickly. The expression "universally loathed" gains gravitas with every passing day. The pressure of the protests (both peronaly & financialy) is immense - something has got to give.

GH:"Do you expect Brown to resign his position due to the pressure the protests put on him?"

I_10: yes.

GH:"Do you expect the majority shareholder to withdraw Browns proxies?"

I_10: yes.

GH:"Do you think that other directors have the desire/power to force Brown out?"

I_10: yes.

I had also made an attempt at the questions on p&b

Before I start, the protesters are completely united by two ideas, 1. The idea of removing Derrick Brown from his position as Chairman (and preferably the club) and 2. The desire to rebuild the club to fulfil its potential.

Above this we have a wide range of ideas about how things should be done after we achieve our goal, so in answering you I am giving you my personal opinions, opinions which may or may not differ from other protesters.


QUOTE
"In the recent press release, the club say that neither the majority shareholder or the chairman are going to give up their shareholding/position and that the current board will enjoy the support of the majority shareholders for "years to come". So far I have only heard that the single aim of the protests is to get rid of Derrick Brown, do the protestors also want rid of the majority shareholders who give their support to Derrick Brown?"


This I feel I have answered already. I find it hard to believe that “the board enjoy the support of the vast majority of the shareholding”, if any backer or shareholder is satisfied with the amount of people protesting outside the ground at home games (which is money that the club cannot afford to turn away) then they cannot have the interests of the football club at heart. When Brown is removed we will return to the ground, it’s very simple. If they seek a solution to this problem then they know what they have to do. If they do not seek a solution to this problem then there is something wrong.

If the majority shareholders have the interests of the club at heart they will take the appropriate measures to ensure the protesters return to the ground.

If they do not, then they will not. In which case we must look at the long term battle of removing them too, we do understand however that this would require more than a simple protest or show of disappointment, but we are already underway in our discussions on this matter.


QUOTE
"If the current majority shareholders, chairman and board of directors stay in place indefinately, what will the protestors do? Continue protesting on the mound for 1, 10, 20 years?"


I will not be paying into Bayview until Derrick Brown goes. When Brown does go I will be back in the stadium, although I am well aware that we will still be fighting a battle on one front or another.



QUOTE
"The club accuse the protestors of having no answers to the "what happens then questions", which the protestors deny. I, along with a lot of supporters have not seen any of the answers from the protestors. What is the ideal scenario for the club post Derrick Brown/ post Twigg/ post Brown and Twigg and how do they plan on acheiving this?"


We are in discussions with the trust, other supporters groups, shareholders, ex-directors and even some local businessmen. We cannot give too much away freely online justnow, if you are genuinely interested I’d encourage you to get involved.

I personally want to see the club owned by the fans, this is a very long term view, but as the saying goes “a journey of one thousand miles begins with one step”. The vital and immediate thing is to get rid of Derrick Brown, we will constantly be holding meetings and discussions to determine our direction, the question of “what next” is something the club have never bothered to ask us (our requests to meet the directors were ignored), as for “a lot of other supporters” they know where to find us and if they are interested they should get involved.


QUOTE
"If Derrick Brown does stay in place as chairman and it becomes evident that he will not be removed, will protesters ever consider ceasing the protests or even working with the current board in some capacity, as the press release suggests, or is the breakdown in relations so severe that this can never happen?"


As I have stated before, it is not possible to work alongside Derrick Brown. He runs our club as a closed shop, he criticises supporters (groups and otherwise) and alienates us. We have patiently sat through many meetings with Brown, the only results were repetitive lectures on how he saved East Fife FC from the brink of closure, followed by the shooting down of any constructive comments from supporters. We were treated like schoolkids, talked down to, patronised and insulted. These meetings, like anything else Brown has done at our club, were a complete failure.

Like you say, the breakdown is too severe to even consider wasting our time “meeting” with Brown again. Despite the major flaws of the board/major shareholders I’d still be prepared to sit down and talk with them, but Derrick Brown himself? No chance!



QUOTE
"Do any protestors beleive that the majority shareholder or the chairman have any desire to see East Fife go out of business?"


If they keep Brown at the helm then I feel I’d be justified in thinking that. After all they would be giving support to a man who is severely holding the club back, people are not coming in, football has become a side issue as Greg Shaw admitted, if the major shareholders want East Fife to progress then they know what must be done. If they do this then they probably have no desire to see us go out of business, and if they don’t? Draw your own conclusions to that.


QUOTE
"If the on-field fortunes of East Fife improve dramatically over the next year, will the mound protests still continue?"


As I said before, I wont be paying in until Brown goes. I will be on the mound watching us, regardless of results.


QUOTE
"Does the apparent willingness of the board to sell the Supporters Trust the full allocation of shares which were requested, change anything?"


They appeared “willing” before and look what happened, besides Derrick all but admitted at the last “supporters meeting” that it was his backers who made these decisions, and not the board. He also said that until relations improved such offers wouldn’t be considered, as far as I can see no relations have been improved, so why has he “appeared willing” on this? Is it because he is trying to bend before he breaks?

Even if the trust get the shares, he is still there, and the only way to change things is for him to go.


QUOTE
"The aim of the protest is obviously to remove Derick Brown, how do the protester see this happening? Do you expect Brown to resign his position due to the pressure the protests put on him? Do you expect the majority shareholder to withdraw Browns proxies? Do you think that other directors have the desire/power to force Brown out?"


There is a lot of answers to this question, my answer does not focus on Brown but my fellow fans. I believe that if there is enough desire to fight for the future of the club we love (and one thing I have noticed the last few months is that there most certainly is!) then we can achieve that. I don’t care how Brown is eventually toppled, something’s got to give somewhere, and it will be sooner than you think I expect. History teaches us that when egomaniac dictators start to make delusional statements about everything being okay, we know that the opposite is true. Derrick is a cornered rat, with very few supporters and a colossal number of enemies. He has no future at our club, when he goes it will be just as sweet as Deuchar’s last gasp winner against Queen’s Park in our promotion season.

Remember that feeling Gordon? Well that’s what we are trying to get back for our club. You wear your scarf with pride like the rest of us, don’t let this man kill your club. Act now to save East Fife FC, you will never regret it I can assure you.

"Does anyone know if him and his old man bought a tshirt yesterday?:"

We didn't and we weren't the only ones.




"Firstly his opening comments are similar to tactics used by Brown. You can hear what I say but don't bother replying if you want to contradict me."

Rubbish. There's been plenty of posts criticising me for not protesting on P&B and here. The thread on P&B was meant to be a serious thread to get some answers to some genuine questions. If people just wanted to have a go at me, they can do it on other threads.


I'm not even going to reply to the rest of your post. You've obviously made up your mind about me and I doubt there is much I could say to change that and to be honest I couldn't really give a toss.

Gordon if you adopt the holier than though attitude of 'poor me' I am misunderstood. Perhaps you should try listening more you have two ears and one mouth for a specific purpose. Try using them accordingly

Dear, dear Gordon. I feel your current problem with your social skills may come from deep within your past! Can I suggest that you confront your father to source the underlying problems with your ability to be liked by anyone? Good luck with the rest of your life.

Concerned party.

"We didn't and we weren't the only ones."

I though the T-shirts were all sold.

Gordon - any thoughts on my answers to your questions?